rusnak

mid-engined cars still spin, but give less warning before they do. They therefore seem to spin faster (snap oversteer) due to high polar moment of inertia. They spin like a top vs. swing like a pendulum.

I used to oversteer on purpose when I was younger. I grew up on dirt track racing, and I used to kick the tail end of the 356 and 911 out on purpose around corners, like the Dukes of Hazzard. That was when Fresno was a smaller town and you could do that and get away with it. My passengers used to comment about the faces of other drivers. Like I said, I was younger and stupider.

MUSSBERGER

Yes they do. Ask me how I know.

justinsrx7

If nothing else, this is a great reminder for those of us that have never experienced LTO first hand and quickly forget that an accident on a high speed curve is just a lift of the throttle away.

Thanks for posting.

Ed Hughes

You don't have to be a track or AX guy to go try a track weekend and enjoy it, and more importantly, learn a lot more than you'll ever learn in an abandoned lot. You should seriously do this at least once. PCA typically runs a first class and safe program and welcomes beginners in stock cars. The cab thing may be an issue, but check your local rules.

ditch68

Justin -

That is true. Good to get a reminder out periodically.

Stay on the loud pedal!

Jeff

HarryD

Most Autocross venues do not penalize a stock cab so that may be the way to go.

Also, my (as well as most ofthe other) PCA chapters offer "Drivers Skills Training" that will show you the basic skills. And again, Cabs do not present a problem.

911tracker85

years ago before I got my 85 911, read an article when they still ran 911s for the IROC. I dont recall the driver, but he commented he hated to drive 911s in the IROC.

he explained that if you get into a corner in a 911 too hot, lifting/braking is NOT an option. just stand on the gas and steer like a mad man.

over the years I have come to completely understand that comment. Fortunately, I learned that on the track under the guidance of good instructors. I THINK I have finally ingrained into my head the knowledge/reaction to give it gas if I start to get loose or some rotation as I learn to drive faster/harder.

I was learning a different line into turn 7 at the end of the back straight at MidOhio a few weeks ago. apex a little early and as you approach apex get into the gas and push to the outer edge of the track before attacking the ESSES/madness. definitely need to trust that the car will dig and grab when you breathe into the gas.

Woo hoo!

rusnak

when it goes, you have to rely on sheer reflex and instinct.

My 914-6 is really flexible, and as an open top car, it can get up on three wheels. When that outside front touches down, you have to correct. So you have two quick moves to make to avoid a spin.

Once on Hwy 101 going over a rise in Atascadero, I came up on a huge dead buck lying in the middle of my lane. If I ran it over, I would have had a huge wreck and totalled the car, which is semi-rare. I don't quite know how I made it around that dead animal, but I distinctly remember the car slamming back down onto the pavement as I straightened out. I sprained my left thumb, but the car was unscathed.

Todsimpson

You can and should lift slightly if you apex early or run wide in a corner. Do not panic and jump all the way off the gas.

A small lift will dial in some TTO, tighten your line and get you back on line. Lessen your steering input at the same time and also be prepared to get right back on the gas.

I've never instructed with the "don't ever lift" philosophy...you can understeer right into the guardrail at places like the Glen by not lifting. TTO is a tool...use it carefully though!

nikkoa

can someone please explain this, TTO?

ditch68

When you are on accelleration, the weight is transferred to the rear wheels of the car. Decelleration causes the weight to shift forward. Fine, on a straight. But in the high lateral force of a corner apex (or anywhere in a corner), if you are right at the edge of available traction for your tires and suspension setup, this reduction in throttle takes the weight forward and off the rear wheels...and the rear end loses traction. The existing inertia of the turn pushes the rear end out into an oversteer situation.

As seen above, due to it's balance and configuration, the 911 can be more prone to this than other cars.

Getting back on the gas shifts the weight back to the rear, the rear tires regain traction, and you straighten out.

Like Todsimpson said, it can be a valuable tool to reset your line in a corner, but dangerous if not intentionally initiated.

Jeff

nikkoa

thanks jeff!

sig_a

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Great explanation.....I "feel" what you mean.

rusnak

Great explanation! Same thing also goes on downhill corners as TB or throttle lift. Be prepared to make steering corrections and a jab of the gas or lift off the brakes.

TTO = trailing throttle oversteer.

Ed Hughes

All of these recent posts signify the importance of getting to some kind of course to learn what your car can do. There certainly is no absolute when it comes to how much throttle to feed the car. In fact, you quickly learn how the throttle helps you to steer and change radius in a turn. Sometimes, if I apex too late, or in some tight turns, I'll let off to purposely bring the rear around fast and then get back on the gas.

But, there is a fundamental rule that usually works: if the 911 rear end starts to come around, typically, the worst thing one can do is to completely get off the gas and/or hit the brakes.