Why am I scared to drive a 911 every day?
#46
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Perhaps it is semantics, but I think you guys may be conflating your personal attitude towards, & usage of the machine, with its fundamental qualities as devised by its designers, engineers & producers. It is usually described as a Sports/GT car, & there is a significant distinction (in my mind, anyway) between sporting/touring & playing. Of all the cars I have owned, the 911 is the least "toy-like"... actually a very "serious" car - more like a great all-around fighter plane. but, I suppose any machine is many things to many people - vive la difference!
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Perhaps it is semantics, but I think you guys may be conflating your personal attitude towards, & usage of the machine, with its fundamental qualities as devised by its designers, engineers & producers. It is usually described as a Sports/GT car, & there is a significant distinction (in my mind, anyway) between sporting/touring & playing. Of all the cars I have owned, the 911 is the least "toy-like"... actually a very "serious" car - more like a great all-around fighter plane. but, I suppose any machine is many things to many people - vive la difference!
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Perhaps it is semantics, but I think you guys may be conflating your personal attitude towards, & usage of the machine, with its fundamental qualities as devised by its designers, engineers & producers. It is usually described as a Sports/GT car, & there is a significant distinction (in my mind, anyway) between sporting/touring & playing. Of all the cars I have owned, the 911 is the least "toy-like"... actually a very "serious" car - more like a great all-around fighter plane. but, I suppose any machine is many things to many people - vive la difference!
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Well, that arguement goes to the votes here for not financing. Making a $200-300-400/month car payment gets in the way of that.
A lot of us can say this-but that has nothing to do with financing or not. I took at $10K Carrera and turned it into a $40K Carrera that is worth 1/3 of that. But, who's counting?
The last thing I'll say on this is that I wish I had a father or someone to counsel me on financial matters in my early years. I don't think anyone here can look anyone else in the eyes and tell them that paying cash for a 20+ year old 911 is bad advice.
A lot of us can say this-but that has nothing to do with financing or not. I took at $10K Carrera and turned it into a $40K Carrera that is worth 1/3 of that. But, who's counting?
The last thing I'll say on this is that I wish I had a father or someone to counsel me on financial matters in my early years. I don't think anyone here can look anyone else in the eyes and tell them that paying cash for a 20+ year old 911 is bad advice.
Should have never brought up the $ aspect had I known it would have caused everyone this much grief.
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That is really a good summation.
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I waited 20 years to get mine. If I had waited until I could pay cash, I still wouldn't have it.
In my humble opinion, as someone of modest financial means, there's nothing wrong with borrowing the money if you are capable of making the payments and if making them allows you to stay within your comfort zone.
Pete's book is fantastic and utterly indispensible. Just try to remember one thing: not every thing that CAN go wrong WILL go wrong! His book could scare you to death if you think that every Carrera is gonna need valve guides, every 964 a reseal, or every SC a new tranny. They don't.
Mine has 121K miles, no valve guides yet. It may need a top end one day. That's just the chance I take.
Heck, I bought a 4-yr-old MINI Cooper w/ 34K miles and the transmission went kapootz 5wks after I bought it. It was 4 months out of warranty. A $4000 repair and BMW/MINI wouldn't stand behind it.
I sold the MINI, cursed their name, and bought a Porsche.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
If you wait for life to give you a guarantee... you're going to wait a long, long time. If you spend your time regretting the past or fearing the future, you aren't in the present. And the present is where all joy is to be found.
The future is unknown. Gas is unknown. Buy a 911. Do something to save money elsewhere and reduce your carbon footprint. I don't have pay television, I don't have a cell phone contract, I'm a lifelong vegetarian, I don't have kids, I recycle! I figure that means I can drive like hell and smile the whole damn time.
It's a risk. It's a chance. You may not be able to afford it. It's scary.
Don't hurry, but don't wait
In my humble opinion, as someone of modest financial means, there's nothing wrong with borrowing the money if you are capable of making the payments and if making them allows you to stay within your comfort zone.
Pete's book is fantastic and utterly indispensible. Just try to remember one thing: not every thing that CAN go wrong WILL go wrong! His book could scare you to death if you think that every Carrera is gonna need valve guides, every 964 a reseal, or every SC a new tranny. They don't.
Mine has 121K miles, no valve guides yet. It may need a top end one day. That's just the chance I take.
Heck, I bought a 4-yr-old MINI Cooper w/ 34K miles and the transmission went kapootz 5wks after I bought it. It was 4 months out of warranty. A $4000 repair and BMW/MINI wouldn't stand behind it.
I sold the MINI, cursed their name, and bought a Porsche.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
If you wait for life to give you a guarantee... you're going to wait a long, long time. If you spend your time regretting the past or fearing the future, you aren't in the present. And the present is where all joy is to be found.
The future is unknown. Gas is unknown. Buy a 911. Do something to save money elsewhere and reduce your carbon footprint. I don't have pay television, I don't have a cell phone contract, I'm a lifelong vegetarian, I don't have kids, I recycle! I figure that means I can drive like hell and smile the whole damn time.
It's a risk. It's a chance. You may not be able to afford it. It's scary.
Don't hurry, but don't wait
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#56
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Take the toy off the pedestal & go 1:1 scale.
I'd join the local PCA to gain knowledge, seek out choice cars & find a trustworthy expert who can PPI the cars that make my short list. With the right attitude (excising the noises in one's head) & subsequent selection process it won't matter if you have some issue that seems disastrous at the moment (DME relay failure, clunk from broken sway bar mount, elect vent fan smokes, etc) - but isn't.
I can't think of a better first time owner-mechanic than a skilled motorcycle wrench who has an open, clear-thinking mind, can respect the factory's efforts (the good, the bad & the why), & is patient enough to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge available (mostly for free!) about the 911 - perhaps the best understood (if idiosyncratic) & most developed high perf car in history.
The $ issue is yours alone. The consensus generalization is that "all 911s are $20K cars... sooner or later" (some $10K cars become $20K cars the day after purchase, when the excited new owner gets around to the POST Purchase Inspection...) & "reserve a few thou for possible suprises" I might add "don't buy anything it doesn't really need in std maint & repair until you've got 8-12K miles or 1 yr on it (if you're on a budget)."
I'd join the local PCA to gain knowledge, seek out choice cars & find a trustworthy expert who can PPI the cars that make my short list. With the right attitude (excising the noises in one's head) & subsequent selection process it won't matter if you have some issue that seems disastrous at the moment (DME relay failure, clunk from broken sway bar mount, elect vent fan smokes, etc) - but isn't.
I can't think of a better first time owner-mechanic than a skilled motorcycle wrench who has an open, clear-thinking mind, can respect the factory's efforts (the good, the bad & the why), & is patient enough to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge available (mostly for free!) about the 911 - perhaps the best understood (if idiosyncratic) & most developed high perf car in history.
The $ issue is yours alone. The consensus generalization is that "all 911s are $20K cars... sooner or later" (some $10K cars become $20K cars the day after purchase, when the excited new owner gets around to the POST Purchase Inspection...) & "reserve a few thou for possible suprises" I might add "don't buy anything it doesn't really need in std maint & repair until you've got 8-12K miles or 1 yr on it (if you're on a budget)."
#58
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just one of many examples of what's out there (I know nothing of this particular car, owner, etc, but if it wasn't red, was nearby & was within my budget parameters, it's what I'd check out - 100K & no accidents or rust + top end & clutch : $16K... & dropping?)... it's a buyers market & looks like it will be that way for awhile. happy hunting!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=454858
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=454858
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Zim's book is on the way from Amazon and I am looking for my first 911.
I keep telling myself that it is not a good idea to buy the one car that I have held on the pedestal for so many years, as a daily driver because it will only let me down.
I dont want to buy one and have to constantly pour money that I dont have into it. I dont make that much, so I am afraid she will put me in over my head. Am I over thinking this? I am very mechanically inclined (motorcycle mechanic for 10years) so the labor is not an issue.
I keep telling myself that it is not a good idea to buy the one car that I have held on the pedestal for so many years, as a daily driver because it will only let me down.
I dont want to buy one and have to constantly pour money that I dont have into it. I dont make that much, so I am afraid she will put me in over my head. Am I over thinking this? I am very mechanically inclined (motorcycle mechanic for 10years) so the labor is not an issue.
If it makes you feel better......
I drove a 72 911 for about 10 years. I got a 8k, 4 year loan which ran me about 180 month. It was my only car. I took it camping and to most of the old IMSA races. I did the PCA events. I slept in it. I moved small furniture in it. Hauled my lab in it. Fooled around with girls in it. I finally sold it when I got married in 94.
Were there problems? Yes. Were they any worse, or abnormal compared to other cars I've had? No. I didn't even have a garage, but had a cover. Minus the occasional alternator rebuild, clutch, brakes, batteries (there were two), it wasn't much more than an oil change twice a year and then air filter I think every year. I changed the plugs a few times. I went through 2 clutches I think, but I added 200k miles on the car. Even when I test drive a new one today, as I crank it with the left hand, I instinctively reach between the seats with the right hand middle finger trying to pull the little choke lever. (guys here will know what i am talking about).
There were little cosmetic things that didn't work right but that didn't bother me. The AC sucked but I never used it. I did buy an updated jack and a special lug nut socket. I got seat covers, cocoa mats, and eventually updated the stereo. I refinished the wheels myself which was kinda neat. I changed the headlamps, changed the muffler out myself.
In fact, I spent way more on BMW wear and tear items when the cars were CPO'd. One trip cost me 1400 dollars. I used to loathe seeing the Brake Linings warning come on because that was a given 400. (Don't ask me what happened after the warranty ran out)
I too have browsed these boards and seen the horror stories and wondered how I managed to drive a 10 year old car for another 10 years and not have it implode. But this board is a small representation of Porsche owners. My neighbor has racked up 120k miles on his '99 996 conv. The biggest single ticket repair item he's had was something with his top. RMS problem - none. He'd not even heard about it when I first mentioned it.
You need to set out a budget and include a category for your car(s). Be realistic and dont cheat yourself. Open a second acount and thow 100 or so in there each month. It helps to have a second car, or just a "beater" as they say. Find a good independent mechanic. Join Triple A and your local PCA group.
As far as a loan, that's your call. I have financed plenty of cars where I got a rate of 5 or less. The way I look at it, my friends spend a car payment a month just on golf. Others I know blow a lot of money on the weekends on other stuff. I know many who have boats (those things ARE expensive). My hobby is cars. If you're looking for a hobby car and not just something to show off, a Porsche might substitute.