Anyone bidding on this '89 911? Careful- not correct speedometer- mileage legit?
02-02-2009, 01:39 PM
#31
Team Owner
an SC has no ecu, and stating Euro cars get trashed and have rust problems is a huge unsubstantiated generalization IMO . I know lots of guys with Eurocars that look and perform excellent with less sign of rust than US cars in the Northeast.
02-02-2009, 02:17 PM
#32
Race Car
I thought this car was an '89. They do have an ECU. I spent years doing DOT conversions on grey-market cars through the hey-day of the 80's. Lots of them were ragged because "pride-of-ownership" of a 911 in europe is not as it is in the US. Also many of the cars were damaged and vandalized in the shipping process. Oncemore, the guy doing the DOT work could have been a hack. There are many nice european market cars over here, but they all have a story. I would be very cautious if buying one of these cars. A good one is usually a great car, but you have to know what to look for.
02-02-2009, 02:20 PM
#33
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2 differnt cars here whalebird. The original post was an 89. The Euro car being discussed is a 78. Might want to click on the links...
Last edited by Brads911sc; 02-02-2009 at 02:37 PM.
02-02-2009, 03:32 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
02-02-2009, 03:39 PM
#36
Race Car
Sometimes I miss such details when I subscribe to a thread. Sorry about the snafu.
Great example though, Probably a fine car for the right owner, but could be a nightmare for a first time Porsche owner. I still discourage the purchase of any car on Ebay, especially a 911. There is so much unfounded myth and expectations surrounding these cars that a sight-unseen purchase is almost always a disappointment.
Great example though, Probably a fine car for the right owner, but could be a nightmare for a first time Porsche owner. I still discourage the purchase of any car on Ebay, especially a 911. There is so much unfounded myth and expectations surrounding these cars that a sight-unseen purchase is almost always a disappointment.
02-02-2009, 03:48 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
This car appears to have the earlier 911 speedometer- from maybe several years before 1989. Anyway, I've noticed this quite a bit on ebay and in general with the older 911s- the speedometer has been changed (easy to do in a 911), then the seller says he's representing the car for someone else (so they can claim they don't know about the replaced speedometer), then they claim the very low miles are original. If anyone is considering this car, I'd be careful. Someone should "make the seller aware" that the true miles are unkown, unless there is specific documentation that the speedometer was replaced with a unit that was dialed up to the exact mileage as the original speedometer (highly unlikely). I've seen this too many times...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...fCarsQ5fTrucks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...fCarsQ5fTrucks
... it is, you are NEVER sure about those... 
02-02-2009, 04:27 PM
#38
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you are right Barry there will always be cheaters out there.. however... selling an 89 with 36k miles, asking 5-7k morre than its probably worth based largely on the mileage, when the speedo isnt even period correct... seems alot more prevelant than people disconnecting their speedos and if you dont know... then you dont know...
there is an 84 on ebay right now with a 150 mph speedo in it... when they introduced the 160 mph speedo in 1983... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318
so there is three... posted right now... seems like a major issue if there are three easily identified frauds without even looking that hard...
in the end, this will drive down the value of all our vehicles...
there is an 84 on ebay right now with a 150 mph speedo in it... when they introduced the 160 mph speedo in 1983... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318
so there is three... posted right now... seems like a major issue if there are three easily identified frauds without even looking that hard...
in the end, this will drive down the value of all our vehicles...
02-02-2009, 05:16 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
What's surprising about that one Brad is it seems to be a real bricks & mortor dealership. Yes a beautiful car (turbo look cab), but they should come clean. As far as the ad can tell, they are representing the mileage as legit, and 32K miles on a 25 year old car is very low, so you know they are expecting some premium in the price for the miles in addition to the condition! Another good catch.
I only ran into the 2 I posted by poking around...if we went though all 911's on ebay from 1970's through 1989 we could probably find another half-dozen or so that are obviously the wrong speedometer. My guess is if you went on rennlist, PCA, or hemmings the % falsely advertised would be much much lower than on ebay...
I only ran into the 2 I posted by poking around...if we went though all 911's on ebay from 1970's through 1989 we could probably find another half-dozen or so that are obviously the wrong speedometer. My guess is if you went on rennlist, PCA, or hemmings the % falsely advertised would be much much lower than on ebay...
02-02-2009, 05:34 PM
#40
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I don't think eBay has the man hours to police stuff like speedometer swaps. They can police other stuff like language in ads on their servers pretty easily, but expecting them to look at a speedometer in a 20 year old car for sale somewhere in the world (which is one of thousands of cars for sale on their site) and investigate if it's legit or not would take far too many resources and, let's face it, way too much money to enforce. It's no different than seeing this car in an ad in a newspaper. You have to do the research before you buy if you are worried about a potential problem.
As with everything, it's a buyer beware environment out there. You buy at your own risk.
As with everything, it's a buyer beware environment out there. You buy at your own risk.
Reminds me when I tried to sell my purchased DirecTV receiver on eBay, listing was yanked almost immediately because I didn't have the right to use the name DirecTV according to eBay. I imagine DirecTV put a lot of pressure on them to protect their inflated NEW receiver sales.
But point of the story, eBay doesn't care too much about the little guys but bends over for corporations.
02-02-2009, 05:55 PM
#41
Race Car
Misrepresentations of Porsche cars are all over the place. Those "highline" fancy dealers are the best at it in fact. Our cars value is driven down by unsatisfied owners who bought their Porsche with gross misconceptions of what the cars are about, how they work, and what it takes to maintain/repair them. The car ends up being neglected further and the owner sells it and forever carrys the idea that Porsches are complete junk. It hurts the Porsche industry from top to bottom. I can remember when SC's were 10 years old and were showing their age then. By now, they all have been a father/son project and need lots of work. I know there are exceptions to this(there are always exceptions to everything 911) but, Ebay is the worst place to look for a Porsche, unless you really know what you are looking for. Most of the guys here at Rennlist are just a few steps ahead.
02-02-2009, 05:55 PM
#42
I am sure eBay gets pressure in all forms from the big guys who need to protect their names and products. I doubt they dont care about the little guy but its not cost effective to hire someone who specializes in older Porsches and can pick off things like this speedo swap.
02-04-2009, 03:33 PM
#43
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From the seller on ebay
"ATTENTION: For those of you that have emailed me stating that you didn't think the speedometer was the correct one for this car I have taken it to a certified Porsche mechanic and had it verified as the original. The production date stamped on the back is 3/89, the warranty code etched is 89 and he determined that the part number was 911 641 517 X. He is positive that this car is the real deal and the speedo is correct. Thanks Dan"
"ATTENTION: For those of you that have emailed me stating that you didn't think the speedometer was the correct one for this car I have taken it to a certified Porsche mechanic and had it verified as the original. The production date stamped on the back is 3/89, the warranty code etched is 89 and he determined that the part number was 911 641 517 X. He is positive that this car is the real deal and the speedo is correct. Thanks Dan"
02-04-2009, 04:17 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
This is the strangest thing....the only faces I thought that might need to be redone were the later 964/993 gauges (my speedometer is fine on my 964, but I did have the tach and oil pressure/temp gauge re-faced at Hollywood speedometer). Something still seems odd...the guy did respond and the car looks nice enough...could it have been sitting in sunlight thus the dash pad and speedometer repair? Why wouldn't the repair have the proper speedometer face? it's just strange.