911 SC vs 3,2 Carrera - wich to pick?
11-08-2008, 07:49 PM
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911 SC vs 3,2 Carrera - wich to pick?
Hi guys!
I'm looking to sell my 944 in the spring to buy a 911.. Here in Norway they pretty much go for around 30000USD give or take depending on condition. Anyways, its gonna be a daily driver, and also thinking of taking it to the track sometimes..
But, I still cant make up my mind, nor do i have any experiance with any of the two - wich would be a better buy? the 911 SC or 3,2 Carrera? I know the 3,2 is more powerful and the G50 gearbox from 87- is nice, but then again its a little more expencive than the SC. What do you rennlisters prefer? Has anyone experiance with both cars, and can tell me any pros/cons about them?
I'm a sucker for the turbo-fenders in the rear, and found a SC with both that, replaced drivers seats to race-seats in the cars color, and a "hidden" rollcage in the back, wich are "mods" i would prefer having.. Its priced around the same as a clean 3,2 in good shape at a dealer here.. but asked around a bit and people tell me to go for the 3,2.. I really don't know, need some help here
I'm looking to sell my 944 in the spring to buy a 911.. Here in Norway they pretty much go for around 30000USD give or take depending on condition. Anyways, its gonna be a daily driver, and also thinking of taking it to the track sometimes..
But, I still cant make up my mind, nor do i have any experiance with any of the two - wich would be a better buy? the 911 SC or 3,2 Carrera? I know the 3,2 is more powerful and the G50 gearbox from 87- is nice, but then again its a little more expencive than the SC. What do you rennlisters prefer? Has anyone experiance with both cars, and can tell me any pros/cons about them?
I'm a sucker for the turbo-fenders in the rear, and found a SC with both that, replaced drivers seats to race-seats in the cars color, and a "hidden" rollcage in the back, wich are "mods" i would prefer having.. Its priced around the same as a clean 3,2 in good shape at a dealer here.. but asked around a bit and people tell me to go for the 3,2.. I really don't know, need some help here
11-08-2008, 08:09 PM
#2
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It does depend on the year, but having had both, I would go for the 3.2 (Slightly better brakes, marginally better ac, better oil cooler, and the oil fed chain tensioners, a must do on the earlier cars), If you can I'd get a 87 or later due to the better transaxle...if you really like the turbo, a nice limited edition car is a turbo look carrera, and you get the full turbo suspension and brakes, not just some glue on flares.
but I will say that for equal or less money you could get a really nice 964, which is a much more advanced car all the way around and considerably more power...
You need to drive both
but I will say that for equal or less money you could get a really nice 964, which is a much more advanced car all the way around and considerably more power...
You need to drive both
11-08-2008, 08:43 PM
#3
I can't speak much of the SC since my only experience was test driving one before I bought my 3.2.
I didn't personally care for the 915 tranny of the SC. The throws felt very long and I disliked the lack of "yes, you are in gear" feel. The G50 feels tighter and gives much more positive feedback.
Getrags are pretty tough trannys too.
I am having good luck with my 3.2
If you are going to use it as a daily driver, you might want to consider a 964. They are more "modern" and a bit more comfortable. They do have some more sophisticated engineering (translation: more things to go wrong and more expensive when they do). But those updates make the car less raw and easier to drive around town. I wouldn't rule out a 964 especially if you are using it as a daily driver.
Personally... I'm hooked on the 3.2. I was at the track a couple of weeks ago. I had two instructors touting the attributes of the 3.2 cars.
I didn't personally care for the 915 tranny of the SC. The throws felt very long and I disliked the lack of "yes, you are in gear" feel. The G50 feels tighter and gives much more positive feedback.
Getrags are pretty tough trannys too.
I am having good luck with my 3.2
If you are going to use it as a daily driver, you might want to consider a 964. They are more "modern" and a bit more comfortable. They do have some more sophisticated engineering (translation: more things to go wrong and more expensive when they do). But those updates make the car less raw and easier to drive around town. I wouldn't rule out a 964 especially if you are using it as a daily driver.
Personally... I'm hooked on the 3.2. I was at the track a couple of weeks ago. I had two instructors touting the attributes of the 3.2 cars.
11-09-2008, 08:20 AM
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Hmm.. well, even tho this car i found is nice, i think i might go for the 3,2.. I know a guy with the turbo body 3,2 carrera, he's asking around 40k USD for it.. and here in norway, 964's are priced around that range and higher.. 
Well, i guess ill try to forget this SC i have my eyes on, and look for a 3,2..
Well, i guess ill try to forget this SC i have my eyes on, and look for a 3,2..
11-09-2008, 09:08 AM
#6
But maybe a short-shift kit would have solved my issues?
And there are lots of 915 trannys on the tracks doing great. It's personal preference.
Go drive them! And as I like to tell anyone who's considering the purchase of a 911: Don't hurry, but don't wait!
11-09-2008, 11:26 AM
#7
Team Owner
I have an Sc and I am very happy with it. i ti is the same car as a 3.2 wit hte exception of th epoints you noted.
i would NOT consider a modified car personally . It is NOT original and i like originality. the SC never had "turbo flares" and these would have been welded in after wards. I have seen a modified sc and it does look nice , but keep in mind it would have been done afterwards.
i would NOT consider a modified car personally . It is NOT original and i like originality. the SC never had "turbo flares" and these would have been welded in after wards. I have seen a modified sc and it does look nice , but keep in mind it would have been done afterwards.
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11-09-2008, 12:06 PM
#8
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Here is a re-print of a post that I wrote some time ago. It provides some insight into the two cars. That said, with modified cars all bets are off!
This thread reminded me of a post that I responded to a few years ago. That thread involved someone who was advised by a shop to not purchase an SC, and encouraged to buy a 3.2 Carrera instead. I can’t find my post, but it was largely a cost/benefit study of the two cars, and went something like this based on hand-written scribbles in my file.
The newest SC is a 1983, the oldest 3.2 is an ’84, and a nice ’81 is only five years older than a good ’86. Needless to say, we’re not talking Model As and Mustangs. The first thing we do is throw out the comparables of the two models. The SC and Carrera, through ’86, all use the same clutch, and engine removal is no more difficult on one as the other. The ’87-89 3.2 cars use a different, more expensive, clutch. It is no more reliable, requires additional labor, and the flywheel, if worn, can’t be machined. I think that it’s safe to say that the clutch is a wash.
Starter motors, shock absorbers, tires, suspension components, brakes, etc., are pretty much the same on both models. SCs and ’84-86 Carreras use a clutch cable; ’87-89 Carreras use a slave cylinder and related hydraulics. Those items can be considered a wash because replacement frequency is similar.
Minor and major services on both models are fairly equal in both labor times, parts, and mileage periods; and life expectancy of alternators, motor mounts and oxygen sensors aren’t different enough to mention.
Let’s look at the “replace once in a blue moon” items. They are reference sensors (3.2), oxygen sensor relay (SC), auxiliary air valve (SC), injectors (both), decal valve (SC), idle control valve (3.2), and throttle switch (3.2). Another pretty equal category, I would have to say.
The biggie repairs are ones that a super-sized wallet can make easier. Each model has a glitch in this category; SCs (some more than others) suffer from broken cylinder head studs, and 3.2 cars (some) suffer from high oil consumption. Cost-wise those two jobs are comparable, certainly close enough to not weigh one model against the other.
All SCs and the first three years of 3.2 cars use the same transmission, the 915, so that’s a wash. Enter the G 50, used in ’87-89 Carreras, that’s a bullet-proof unit that should last at least 250,000 miles. So, the ’87-89 cars edge ahead in our “race.” But wait a minute! The typical SC synchro repair will cost between $1500 and $2500 (more for a “rebuild”), while the typical 3.2 car with a G 50 will cost $5,000 - $8,000 more than a comparable condition SC to buy. Of course, you get power seats and improved A/C along with the great trans. But that, in my mind, is not sufficient cause to eliminate an SC (or ’84-86 Carrera) from consideration.
Let’s explore other typical repairs that SCs and 3.2 cars require over time. I’ll mention here that this is pretty consistent through 200K miles, beyond that many “repairs” become “restorations.” We’ll start with the famous SC airbox; replacement will set the SC owner back $1200 - $1400. On the flip side, the 3.2 Carrera’s air flow meter will fail in a way that the car will still run, but fail its annual/bi-annual smog inspection. Replacement is necessary; and the cost will be $800 - $900. CIS fuel injection (SCs) use a part called a Control Pressure Regulator, aka Warm-Up Regulator. The part is rarely replaced, most often when moisture has entered the car’s fuel system. With moisture present all bets are off for both models! The part is available for about $600, and labor/setup adds another $200. On the other side, 3.2 Carreras have a pair of engine compartment fuel lines that require replacement, which, including intake manifold R&I, will remove about $1,000 from your wallet. Back to the SCs, and a part called an accumulator which will cost about $350 (diagnosis and labor replacement is minimal). 3.2 Carreras have two relatively small issues, one can leave you stranded (DME relay); the other will make the car exhibit unusual symptoms (cylinder head temp sensor). The relay will cost you about $50, the sensor about $350 installed. So, at this point, repair costs are $2350 (SCs) and $2150 (3.2s). Have we got evidence yet that SCs should be avoided, or even be reduced to a second-tier car? I think not.
Upgrades. OK, Carrera tensioners. That’s about it, and so many SCs have had this done it’s almost like they were original equipment anyway. Yes, we can mention anti-roll bars with increased diameters, but don’t forget, if you “must do” them to an SC, you also must “upgrade” ‘84/85 Carreras with them also.
I think that this post clearly shows that either car (SC or Carrera) is worth consideration, and that for every potential purchase condition should be the overwhelming factor. Like I said earlier, we’re not talking Model As and Mustangs here.
This thread reminded me of a post that I responded to a few years ago. That thread involved someone who was advised by a shop to not purchase an SC, and encouraged to buy a 3.2 Carrera instead. I can’t find my post, but it was largely a cost/benefit study of the two cars, and went something like this based on hand-written scribbles in my file.
The newest SC is a 1983, the oldest 3.2 is an ’84, and a nice ’81 is only five years older than a good ’86. Needless to say, we’re not talking Model As and Mustangs. The first thing we do is throw out the comparables of the two models. The SC and Carrera, through ’86, all use the same clutch, and engine removal is no more difficult on one as the other. The ’87-89 3.2 cars use a different, more expensive, clutch. It is no more reliable, requires additional labor, and the flywheel, if worn, can’t be machined. I think that it’s safe to say that the clutch is a wash.
Starter motors, shock absorbers, tires, suspension components, brakes, etc., are pretty much the same on both models. SCs and ’84-86 Carreras use a clutch cable; ’87-89 Carreras use a slave cylinder and related hydraulics. Those items can be considered a wash because replacement frequency is similar.
Minor and major services on both models are fairly equal in both labor times, parts, and mileage periods; and life expectancy of alternators, motor mounts and oxygen sensors aren’t different enough to mention.
Let’s look at the “replace once in a blue moon” items. They are reference sensors (3.2), oxygen sensor relay (SC), auxiliary air valve (SC), injectors (both), decal valve (SC), idle control valve (3.2), and throttle switch (3.2). Another pretty equal category, I would have to say.
The biggie repairs are ones that a super-sized wallet can make easier. Each model has a glitch in this category; SCs (some more than others) suffer from broken cylinder head studs, and 3.2 cars (some) suffer from high oil consumption. Cost-wise those two jobs are comparable, certainly close enough to not weigh one model against the other.
All SCs and the first three years of 3.2 cars use the same transmission, the 915, so that’s a wash. Enter the G 50, used in ’87-89 Carreras, that’s a bullet-proof unit that should last at least 250,000 miles. So, the ’87-89 cars edge ahead in our “race.” But wait a minute! The typical SC synchro repair will cost between $1500 and $2500 (more for a “rebuild”), while the typical 3.2 car with a G 50 will cost $5,000 - $8,000 more than a comparable condition SC to buy. Of course, you get power seats and improved A/C along with the great trans. But that, in my mind, is not sufficient cause to eliminate an SC (or ’84-86 Carrera) from consideration.
Let’s explore other typical repairs that SCs and 3.2 cars require over time. I’ll mention here that this is pretty consistent through 200K miles, beyond that many “repairs” become “restorations.” We’ll start with the famous SC airbox; replacement will set the SC owner back $1200 - $1400. On the flip side, the 3.2 Carrera’s air flow meter will fail in a way that the car will still run, but fail its annual/bi-annual smog inspection. Replacement is necessary; and the cost will be $800 - $900. CIS fuel injection (SCs) use a part called a Control Pressure Regulator, aka Warm-Up Regulator. The part is rarely replaced, most often when moisture has entered the car’s fuel system. With moisture present all bets are off for both models! The part is available for about $600, and labor/setup adds another $200. On the other side, 3.2 Carreras have a pair of engine compartment fuel lines that require replacement, which, including intake manifold R&I, will remove about $1,000 from your wallet. Back to the SCs, and a part called an accumulator which will cost about $350 (diagnosis and labor replacement is minimal). 3.2 Carreras have two relatively small issues, one can leave you stranded (DME relay); the other will make the car exhibit unusual symptoms (cylinder head temp sensor). The relay will cost you about $50, the sensor about $350 installed. So, at this point, repair costs are $2350 (SCs) and $2150 (3.2s). Have we got evidence yet that SCs should be avoided, or even be reduced to a second-tier car? I think not.
Upgrades. OK, Carrera tensioners. That’s about it, and so many SCs have had this done it’s almost like they were original equipment anyway. Yes, we can mention anti-roll bars with increased diameters, but don’t forget, if you “must do” them to an SC, you also must “upgrade” ‘84/85 Carreras with them also.
I think that this post clearly shows that either car (SC or Carrera) is worth consideration, and that for every potential purchase condition should be the overwhelming factor. Like I said earlier, we’re not talking Model As and Mustangs here.
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Underblu (02-20-2023)
11-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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40k USD? Why don't you buy one over here and import it? Do they make it hard or too expensive? You can get a good one here for less than half that. I would have to agree that the 3.2 is a better car, but a really nice SC with the appropriate airbox and tensioner mods is arguable the best all-around 911 ever, and the 915 grows on you. I don't know about being the most reliable, but the 3 I've had were all great cars. I bought another one last year when I had no use for it whatsoever, and no place to park it, just because I missed the experience.
11-09-2008, 02:35 PM
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Wow, I miss read your original post, I thought you were selling a 944 and wanted to spend $30k for a 911, If I could sell a 944 for $30k I'd go into the export business pretty quick...by contrast you can get good 44's for under $5K and under $30K would get you just about anything in a SC, Carrera or 964...
I agree with shannon, between the SC and the Carrera, we're talking a pretty small degree of separation, they both are really great cars, the 3.2 just has a slight edge imho...but if I found a really clean SC i would take it in a heartbeat over a ragged Carrera...and like Iceman, I'd pass on one that has a lot of "upgrades" save the basic mechanicals...
I agree with shannon, between the SC and the Carrera, we're talking a pretty small degree of separation, they both are really great cars, the 3.2 just has a slight edge imho...but if I found a really clean SC i would take it in a heartbeat over a ragged Carrera...and like Iceman, I'd pass on one that has a lot of "upgrades" save the basic mechanicals...
11-09-2008, 03:25 PM
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http://www.autodb.no/cgi-bin/car/detail.pl?nr=2014363
that is the car i was looking in to..
well yeah, i can afford 30000USD tops, the prices ive mentioned are prices over here in Norway.. not sure of the differences between Us and Euro models, except from some cosmetic differences.. But I've heard US is low compression and Euro high compression engine?
Importing a car would both be a little scary yet exciting since the market offers alot more in the US than over here..Im only 22, but dont feel like waiting much longer than until spring..But the rates of import with norwegian taxes and toll arent too inviting .. there is money to save though, but for some reason US-cars arent so attractive as euro-cars are here..
that is the car i was looking in to..
well yeah, i can afford 30000USD tops, the prices ive mentioned are prices over here in Norway.. not sure of the differences between Us and Euro models, except from some cosmetic differences.. But I've heard US is low compression and Euro high compression engine?
Importing a car would both be a little scary yet exciting since the market offers alot more in the US than over here..Im only 22, but dont feel like waiting much longer than until spring..But the rates of import with norwegian taxes and toll arent too inviting ..
there is money to save though, but for some reason US-cars arent so attractive as euro-cars are here..
11-09-2008, 08:18 PM
#14
3.2's are more porky - you can toss out the heavy elec. seats, etc. and reduce the wt.
3.2's have DME & is better than CIS right now PLUS high EtOH fuels are CIS killers if/when they arrive
if comparable in condition, I'd get the 3.2
in fact, the bottom half of my early hot rod car is mostly off of crashed Carrera's.... motor, brakes, suspension...
3.2's have DME & is better than CIS right now PLUS high EtOH fuels are CIS killers if/when they arrive
if comparable in condition, I'd get the 3.2
in fact, the bottom half of my early hot rod car is mostly off of crashed Carrera's.... motor, brakes, suspension...
11-10-2008, 01:16 PM
#15
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I don't think you really make a choice between an SC or a Carrera. I think your budget tells you what you can get. Don't get bogged down on which one is better, as Pete laid out the pros/cons of both pretty much cancel out...just get the best car you can afford.
For example (in US terms):
$9K - $ 14K - SC
$13K - $ 16K - Carrera w/915
$ 15K - $ 20K - Carrera w/G50
These are just round abouts, but as you can see, the budget is going to dictate which car you can get into.
For example (in US terms):
$9K - $ 14K - SC
$13K - $ 16K - Carrera w/915
$ 15K - $ 20K - Carrera w/G50
These are just round abouts, but as you can see, the budget is going to dictate which car you can get into.