Smog Passing Issues?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
Smog Passing Issues?
I've been posting like a madman for my research on 911s.
I talked with a technical advisor with the California Smog board. He says our 911s, like the 87-89s that I'm looking at are typically often failing the Federal smog tests and the replacement parts for smog are harder to find and very expensive.
What have your gentlemen found when smogging your 911s? Does it become increasingly hard to pass as the years go on? Smog parts expensive?
This tech also said that it will forever need a smog test. Only pre-1975 vehicles are exempt, not vehicles beyond a certain age even as time passes. YIKES! That means even 20 years from now it's still gonna have to pass smog! (Considering if I keep it that long, but still something to consider)
I talked with a technical advisor with the California Smog board. He says our 911s, like the 87-89s that I'm looking at are typically often failing the Federal smog tests and the replacement parts for smog are harder to find and very expensive.
What have your gentlemen found when smogging your 911s? Does it become increasingly hard to pass as the years go on? Smog parts expensive?
This tech also said that it will forever need a smog test. Only pre-1975 vehicles are exempt, not vehicles beyond a certain age even as time passes. YIKES! That means even 20 years from now it's still gonna have to pass smog! (Considering if I keep it that long, but still something to consider)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 12
From: Thousand Oaks. CA
I have no problems with my 83SC...you have to be careful with some of the earlier SCs because they used smog pumps. Mine has a cat converter, 02 sensor and no smog pump. The emissions testings and pass/fail are based on that years model....you are not forced to meet the requirements of an 2008 model. I have a 68 280sl that was a bitch to smog...I would have to lean the mechanical fuel inj pump till the car could hardly run, pass the test...and take it home to readjust again. It was a waste of time...thank god don't need to smog it anymore.
abe
abe
Last edited by abe; Oct 3, 2008 at 09:30 PM.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 367
Likes: 23
From: Sacramento, CA
The 84 through 89 3.2 cars typically run very clean with their motronic fuel injection system. The 3.0 SC cars generally are harder to pass smog. I recently went through the challenging process of smogging an out of state '77 911 with a '89 3.2 engine conversion. The problem turned out to be a hollowed out catalytic converter that the previous owner didn't tell me about. Once I tuned up the car, had the mixtures set properly and installed a good cat the car passed smog easily. On average the emissions are 10% of allowable values. Yes, CA smog is a huge hassle for us enthusiasts but I wouldn't be surprised is the law doesn't change at some point in the future. Right now cars 1976 and newer are required to pass smog every two years. The state of CA requires that any seller of a used vehicle is responsible for smog testing the vehicle before selling it. Any cars you look at should come with a passing smog check within the previous 90 days or run, don't walk away. Do a search on this forum for my thread entitled "3.2 gross polluter" for some excellent smog related information provided by the many knowlegable posters right here on this board. Welcome to the area and good luck to you!
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 217
Likes: 1
Well, my experience in California is I have never failed & I'm now at 195Kmiles. Last dyno test was about 175K.
I did change the original O2 sensor at about 155K miles, they are only good for ~60K as I understand. So I was passing pre-dyno w/o O2 sensor. My Cat is original also and that has got to be long gone.
I'm due again in Feb and may swap out the O2 sensor for the NKG style. Then again I may just test it.
Doesn't sound like a problem to me !
I did change the original O2 sensor at about 155K miles, they are only good for ~60K as I understand. So I was passing pre-dyno w/o O2 sensor. My Cat is original also and that has got to be long gone.
I'm due again in Feb and may swap out the O2 sensor for the NKG style. Then again I may just test it.
Doesn't sound like a problem to me !
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
Likes: 16
From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
If you unknowingly buy a car with a high oil consumption problem your HC readings might be out of spec, which will require necessary engine repairs.
Replacement parts "for smog" are the same as replacement parts for tune ups, or the parts required to repair a running problem. This is a silly statement to make because all of the parts for a 3.2 car are readily available from many sources. Sounds like the guy you talked with has Honda stock...
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,292
Likes: 7
From: WI, US
The 3.2 I bought didn't have a cat when I bought it. I used a $500 "el cheapo" catalytic converter from Performance Products to make it through the emissions testing in my state. The car passed with flying colors (it also had a fresh O2 sensor, fresh plugs, good gas and a recent full 15k service). So, even the aftermarket cheap catalytic converter did it's job verses paying full boat for a Porsche unit. Parts are available. Enough 911's were built and still around to keep the aftermarket suppliers still wishing to support the market.
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
Likes: 16
From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
The 3.2 I bought didn't have a cat when I bought it. I used a $500 "el cheapo" catalytic converter from Performance Products to make it through the emissions testing in my state. The car passed with flying colors (it also had a fresh O2 sensor, fresh plugs, good gas and a recent full 15k service). So, even the aftermarket cheap catalytic converter did it's job verses paying full boat for a Porsche unit. Parts are available. Enough 911's were built and still around to keep the aftermarket suppliers still wishing to support the market.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
If you buy a USA consumption car you should have little or no problems with smog in CA. If you buy a gray-market (Euro) car all bets are off - CA is tough to deal with.
If you unknowingly buy a car with a high oil consumption problem your HC readings might be out of spec, which will require necessary engine repairs.
Replacement parts "for smog" are the same as replacement parts for tune ups, or the parts required to repair a running problem. This is a silly statement to make because all of the parts for a 3.2 car are readily available from many sources. Sounds like the guy you talked with has Honda stock...
If you unknowingly buy a car with a high oil consumption problem your HC readings might be out of spec, which will require necessary engine repairs.
Replacement parts "for smog" are the same as replacement parts for tune ups, or the parts required to repair a running problem. This is a silly statement to make because all of the parts for a 3.2 car are readily available from many sources. Sounds like the guy you talked with has Honda stock...
I've been reading your book to power my search. Good reading!
Yeah, in my research here's what I found. For CA. any car is considered used once it has more than 7500 miles. Once it has more than 7500 miles it only has to pass the smog standards that the manufacturer rated for it, not state standards. State standards apply only to new vehicles and 49-state (not certified for sale in CA until after 7500 miles). At least this is what the smog board lady said. Oh boy, confusing.
Anyhow, as long as the 911 I buy passed smog Federal standards within the past 90 days, it should pass smog here in CA w/o incident even if it's out of state.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
My first test two years ago was completely clean, a few months ago I passed but had a high CO%(I'm too lazy too search for the thread). I tested the O2 sensor and found it was faulty so swapped in a new one but never tested it again. I did intend to check my mileage to see if my rich condition was fixed but when I drive it's usually at high revs up Hwy 9 and along Skyline so my mileage is never great anyway.
And yep you'll get dragged into a test only station every two years for a rolling test as far as I can tell.
And yep you'll get dragged into a test only station every two years for a rolling test as far as I can tell.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
Help me out gentlemen. I'm considering looking at a couple of cars. One in NY, one in IL. Both states do not have emissions testing and both sellers are not willing to take it to their mechanics and pay for their state's equivalent of an emissions test (Which will measure HC and CO2 said one seller). I'd really like to see these cars but it's not worth my taking a chance unless I know it'll pass smog.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the car spent it's whole life on the east coast, it may not pass and not have any of the CA smog-required equipment, right? In which case, it could be quite expensive and time-consuming to bring that car over here and try to get it to pass smog testing.
Help.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the car spent it's whole life on the east coast, it may not pass and not have any of the CA smog-required equipment, right? In which case, it could be quite expensive and time-consuming to bring that car over here and try to get it to pass smog testing.
Help.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
As for emissions testing, CA DMV regs state it is the sellers responsibility to provide a valid smog certificate done within the past 90 days. This does not apply to out of state vehicles, however, and is something the parties can negotiate.
In my case, this was the deal breaker. I'm not going to invest my time, money for airfare, etc. if the seller is not at least willing to front the money for at least the emissions test. If it doesn't pass, there could be countless time and money to make it pass. Even if I do pay him, how is that transaction to work? I send him money and trust him to take the car to a station, send me a real valid certificate? Just too complicated. And I don't like the idea of sending some total stranger $200.
Yet, I don't blame him for not wanting to go through that trouble and hold out for a local buyer. His state does not require emissions testing. In the end, we both agreed it was too much trouble.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
Likes: 16
From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
Motivated sellers should always bend over backwards to simplify a sale, but should never be expected to pay for a PPI. PPIs, not just an emission test, are crucial - more so now than ever. There is so much to look at, cars driven on salted roads can be a costly mess underneath, and G 50 3.2 liter cars are about twenty years old already. If you're going to do a long-distance purchase it seems to work out better when it's a word of mouth (family friend, known history, etc.) than simply responding to an ad. Remember, a PPI is insurance, and it can save you thousands of dollars.
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