"Money shift" and many questions about what I may of broke
09-22-2008, 10:46 AM
#16
Race Car
Thread Starter
The motor does not make any mechanical noises at all. Only when using the starter.
Last edited by Tippy; 09-22-2008 at 03:50 PM.
09-22-2008, 11:03 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
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The motor does not make any mechanical noises at all. Only when using the starter. You don't have to be a jerk. Your thread, "the rebuild begins", was informitive to me, but now, I really don't care about ever responding to you. Nice first response to me, especially when I just broke a $25,000 protomotive engine. I am not rich you know........I am still in college and work full-time.
I did not see anything wrong with his reply. Taking your Porsche to the drag strip does not sound like the smartest thing to do...esspecially if you " are not rich, and still in college".
09-22-2008, 11:21 AM
#18
Race Car
Thread Starter
09-22-2008, 11:26 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
The motor does not make any mechanical noises at all. Only when using the starter. You don't have to be a jerk. Your thread, "the rebuild begins", was informitive to me, but now, I really don't care about ever responding to you. Nice first response to me, especially when I just broke a $25,000 protomotive engine. I am not rich you know........I am still in college and work full-time.
If you'll then get over your attitude, I laid out what the usual culprits are in an extreme over-rev such as what you went thru.
Lastly, I'll offer you some words of wisdom for the future. If you're in college and on a budget, I'd not take a "tuned"/modified-engined 911 to the dragstrip. That's a sure way to fork over copious amounts of cash. Do a search on Juan+dragstrip+turbo over on Pelican and you'll see what I mean.
09-22-2008, 11:34 AM
#20
Race Car
Thread Starter
My first statement may have had a bit of a stinger to it, but I wasn't being a jerk. Do you want me to go back and see how many such comments and e-mails I had made to me by friends when I twisted mine up? They were all in jest, and most of them had done similar at some point.
I am just a little touchy if you know what I mean. If I ever thought a money shift would of done this, I would never push the car the way I did. I have hit the wrong gear in many V8s without problems, but interference motors (now I know), will prove fatal.
09-22-2008, 11:41 AM
#21
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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I have a '87 3.2l with a Protomotive turbo kit. I was told it has 7:1 pistons for the 1.0 bar of boost.
I was at the drag strip when I shifted from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th. The car engine braked pretty good but I don't think it locked the tires and I quickly put the clutch in.
The motor died and never restarted. I believe the timing chain(s) broke and slapped all the valves but I have not did a check of compression or rocker arm movement.
Why I say this, is because I heard little tinking sounds after I was coasting trying to let the clutch out to restart.
My question is, is the 3.2l an interference motor?
If it is, does the 7:1 pistons now make it non-interference?
The engine turns over with a starter grinding-like sound but sounds smooth as silk if push started. No engine noise at all. I am baffled by this too?
Also, could an overrev cause the fuel injection to not start the motor too?
BTW, I did 124 MPH @ a 12.4 on street tires before this fatal run.
I was at the drag strip when I shifted from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th. The car engine braked pretty good but I don't think it locked the tires and I quickly put the clutch in.
The motor died and never restarted. I believe the timing chain(s) broke and slapped all the valves but I have not did a check of compression or rocker arm movement.
Why I say this, is because I heard little tinking sounds after I was coasting trying to let the clutch out to restart.
My question is, is the 3.2l an interference motor?
If it is, does the 7:1 pistons now make it non-interference?
The engine turns over with a starter grinding-like sound but sounds smooth as silk if push started. No engine noise at all. I am baffled by this too?
Also, could an overrev cause the fuel injection to not start the motor too?
BTW, I did 124 MPH @ a 12.4 on street tires before this fatal run.
09-22-2008, 12:04 PM
#22
Race Car
Thread Starter
09-22-2008, 01:36 PM
#23
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Well, as long as you plan for the worst, you can always get surprised and find it to be something that is not as bad as it first appeared to be. Hopefully before you actually have the time for a removal and tear-down, maybe you have access to some test equipment, like a decent, articulating bore-scope, hopefully one with a video monitor, instead of just an eye-piece. But... that may come down to what you can get your hands on, to have a look around, before you start tearing it down, maybe unnecessarily. Also, I would say to have access to the cylinder, pressure testing equipment, to check for leak-down pressures and for static pressure testing, if it is revealed that the air is going somewhere. But I would try the bore-scope route first, as it may eliminate the need for the other equipment items. Pull the plugs, and take a look at them, then go with the scope and carefully observe each component in every cylinder for damage. It should be quite obvious, if there was a meeting of the pistons and other items in a cylinder. Then I would pull the rocker arm covers, top and bottom, to inspect for visible damage. You may even know just what set of valve springs and rocker arms to really look at from what you might have found with the scope. I would also pull the starter, and have a look at the teeth on the starting gear, to check for damaged or missing teeth, etc. Then take a look with the bore-scope at the starting ring gear to check for any damage. I would try to do any an all testing possible, with the least invasive ways you can, before actually tearing it down.
The spring type clutch disc can have some odd effects when they fail. I had one fail on a different German made car, while sitting at a stoplight, with the clutch pedal all the way down. While waiting for the light to change, the car suddenly took off, like I had dumped the clutch or my foot had slipped off of the pedal. But... my foot did not slip, and it was still to the floor, and just before I was about to enter the intersection, I was able to turn the key and kill the engine. I came out VERY lucky on that, being this was a major, high-speed intersection, and I would have been nailed by the cross flow traffic. When I pulled the transmission, I found that one of the springs had come out of the original factory clutch disc, and had gotten trapped between the pressure plate, disc and flywheel. This basically made a " solid" inline connection between the engine and the transmission, and the car launched forward when it happened. I lucked out, because the only part needing replacing was the clutch disc, all of the other components were OK, well, except for my shorts... but that is another story.
Hopefully it will be something that will be easy to find with just a few test done, and hopefully something that is not all that terrible to fix. Good luck!! Tony.
The spring type clutch disc can have some odd effects when they fail. I had one fail on a different German made car, while sitting at a stoplight, with the clutch pedal all the way down. While waiting for the light to change, the car suddenly took off, like I had dumped the clutch or my foot had slipped off of the pedal. But... my foot did not slip, and it was still to the floor, and just before I was about to enter the intersection, I was able to turn the key and kill the engine. I came out VERY lucky on that, being this was a major, high-speed intersection, and I would have been nailed by the cross flow traffic. When I pulled the transmission, I found that one of the springs had come out of the original factory clutch disc, and had gotten trapped between the pressure plate, disc and flywheel. This basically made a " solid" inline connection between the engine and the transmission, and the car launched forward when it happened. I lucked out, because the only part needing replacing was the clutch disc, all of the other components were OK, well, except for my shorts... but that is another story.
Hopefully it will be something that will be easy to find with just a few test done, and hopefully something that is not all that terrible to fix. Good luck!! Tony.
09-22-2008, 02:14 PM
#24
Race Car
Thread Starter
Well, as long as you plan for the worst, you can always get surprised and find it to be something that is not as bad as it first appeared to be. Hopefully before you actually have the time for a removal and tear-down, maybe you have access to some test equipment, like a decent, articulating bore-scope, hopefully one with a video monitor, instead of just an eye-piece. But... that may come down to what you can get your hands on, to have a look around, before you start tearing it down, maybe unnecessarily. Also, I would say to have access to the cylinder, pressure testing equipment, to check for leak-down pressures and for static pressure testing, if it is revealed that the air is going somewhere. But I would try the bore-scope route first, as it may eliminate the need for the other equipment items. Pull the plugs, and take a look at them, then go with the scope and carefully observe each component in every cylinder for damage. It should be quite obvious, if there was a meeting of the pistons and other items in a cylinder. Then I would pull the rocker arm covers, top and bottom, to inspect for visible damage. You may even know just what set of valve springs and rocker arms to really look at from what you might have found with the scope. I would also pull the starter, and have a look at the teeth on the starting gear, to check for damaged or missing teeth, etc. Then take a look with the bore-scope at the starting ring gear to check for any damage. I would try to do any an all testing possible, with the least invasive ways you can, before actually tearing it down.
The spring type clutch disc can have some odd effects when they fail. I had one fail on a different German made car, while sitting at a stoplight, with the clutch pedal all the way down. While waiting for the light to change, the car suddenly took off, like I had dumped the clutch or my foot had slipped off of the pedal. But... my foot did not slip, and it was still to the floor, and just before I was about to enter the intersection, I was able to turn the key and kill the engine. I came out VERY lucky on that, being this was a major, high-speed intersection, and I would have been nailed by the cross flow traffic. When I pulled the transmission, I found that one of the springs had come out of the original factory clutch disc, and had gotten trapped between the pressure plate, disc and flywheel. This basically made a " solid" inline connection between the engine and the transmission, and the car launched forward when it happened. I lucked out, because the only part needing replacing was the clutch disc, all of the other components were OK, well, except for my shorts... but that is another story.
Hopefully it will be something that will be easy to find with just a few test done, and hopefully something that is not all that terrible to fix. Good luck!! Tony.
The spring type clutch disc can have some odd effects when they fail. I had one fail on a different German made car, while sitting at a stoplight, with the clutch pedal all the way down. While waiting for the light to change, the car suddenly took off, like I had dumped the clutch or my foot had slipped off of the pedal. But... my foot did not slip, and it was still to the floor, and just before I was about to enter the intersection, I was able to turn the key and kill the engine. I came out VERY lucky on that, being this was a major, high-speed intersection, and I would have been nailed by the cross flow traffic. When I pulled the transmission, I found that one of the springs had come out of the original factory clutch disc, and had gotten trapped between the pressure plate, disc and flywheel. This basically made a " solid" inline connection between the engine and the transmission, and the car launched forward when it happened. I lucked out, because the only part needing replacing was the clutch disc, all of the other components were OK, well, except for my shorts... but that is another story.
Hopefully it will be something that will be easy to find with just a few test done, and hopefully something that is not all that terrible to fix. Good luck!! Tony.
The more I think about it, the more I am curious about the clutch disc failure. That would make the noise when I am using the starter with the clutch in and why it is silent when pushing starting.
Thanks.
09-22-2008, 02:18 PM
#25
Race Car
Thread Starter
I am going at this slow because I tend to jump head first into a project without looking at all variables. Being a 911 motor, it is not you "daddys chevy". 
I don't want to overlook anything and cause me more pain and $$$$$$.
Thanks for everyones inputs, I pretty much figure I did what Ed Hughes did to his motor. I think 3.2slantnose is on to something about the clutch and my mysterious noise.
I don't want to overlook anything and cause me more pain and $$$$$$.Thanks for everyones inputs, I pretty much figure I did what Ed Hughes did to his motor. I think 3.2slantnose is on to something about the clutch and my mysterious noise.
09-22-2008, 02:31 PM
#26
Team Owner
well step one is removing the transmision from the engine , some people even do it and leave the transmision in the car, so if you have issues there. it will become evident very quickly.
Just Keep in mind Tippy that some people, my self included I might add ( especially on an enthusiast forum ) consider taking a Porsche to a drag strip sacraligous, never mind bolting on an aftermarket turbo, and amounts to abuse. So the reactions don't surprise me.
Anyway keep us appraised if you don't mind.
Just Keep in mind Tippy that some people, my self included I might add ( especially on an enthusiast forum ) consider taking a Porsche to a drag strip sacraligous, never mind bolting on an aftermarket turbo, and amounts to abuse. So the reactions don't surprise me.
Anyway keep us appraised if you don't mind.
09-22-2008, 02:56 PM
#27
Race Car
Thread Starter
well step one is removing the transmision from the engine , some people even do it and leave the transmision in the car, so if you have issues there. it will become evident very quickly.
Just Keep in mind Tippy that some people, my self included I might add ( especially on an enthusiast forum ) consider taking a Porsche to a drag strip sacraligous, never mind bolting on an aftermarket turbo, and amounts to abuse. So the reactions don't surprise me.
Anyway keep us appraised if you don't mind.
Just Keep in mind Tippy that some people, my self included I might add ( especially on an enthusiast forum ) consider taking a Porsche to a drag strip sacraligous, never mind bolting on an aftermarket turbo, and amounts to abuse. So the reactions don't surprise me.
Anyway keep us appraised if you don't mind.
When it comes to drag racing, a lot of guys drag their 930/964Ts, 996TT, and their 951s. I know it is hard on them, I had to live up (prove) to my 427 RWHP.
09-22-2008, 04:27 PM
#29
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See that's one thing about FWD cars. I was making 419 wheel ponies on my boosted Taurus SHO & was still in the 13's. You're in the 12's. Rear engine / Rear drive FTW.
Rear engine / Rear drive FTW.
09-22-2008, 04:52 PM
#30
Race Car
Thread Starter
Technically, I was just doing time trials, no racing. But yes, I beat everyone I ran except my friends '08 BMW 335i when I missed 4th and then decided 2nd would be ideal gear at 90 MPH. 
Yes, but I still could only manage a 2.3 60ft time. My car is very lazy until boost.
Yes, but I still could only manage a 2.3 60ft time. My car is very lazy until boost.