hopkinskid

I've been looking for 911 SCs for the past four months now, and I think I've found the ONE. Great exterior, great interior, no problems (as far as I can tell when driving), looked over it for 1 hour, drove it for 1 hour, all the updates done, etc. Just a PPI next week and that's it.

But I do have some questions, if anyone can help me out.

1) Engine was "rebuilt" at only 78k miles. Owner is 2nd owner, and is currently trying to find out why the first owner had the rebuilt done at 78k miles. Car has 116k miles now, so it has just about 40k since then. Any concerns about the rebuilt at 78k?

2) I was looking over a 1996 work order for the "rebuilt", and the following is a summary:

Remove/install engine/tran
complete valve job
replace valve guides
replace oil return tubes
replace all 24 head studs
install timing chain update (both sides)
= $2200 parts, $1300 labor; total $3500

I've heard about rebuilds costing $5k, chain tensioners for $750-$1k, stud replacements for $2.5k, valve guide replacements for major $$, etc. So what gives? Was this just a case of good timing (labor costs down since everythiing was done at the same time)? Is $3500 a little low for all the work described in the work order? Does the above work constitute a "rebuilt" engine?

3) PPI done in April 2000 (of course I'm getting one next week also:
Compression - 180 on all 6 cylinders

PPI Repairs needed: Leak in oil return tubes, flywheel seal, oil hose from engine to thermostat, diff flange seals.

Anything serious about the leaks?

4) I've checked just about everything. Anything querky or weird that I would miss, and 3 years down the line, I'd be telling myself "darn, if I had known, I would have checked that out"? Again, I've read all the posts on rennlist and pelicanparts, read Used 911 Story, talked with owners, etc. I'm ready to become a Porsche owner (been planning this moment for the past 16 years)!

Regards,
Hopkinskid

Carrera51

Looks like the motor had a top end rebuild. My guess based on what you described is that it had a broken head stud since you indicated that all the head studs replaced. This is only my opninion and I am not a Porsche technician, but it seems silly to me to overhaul the top end of the motor and not do the bottom end as well since there are moving parts in there that wear with age. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in on this. The price for all this work does seem a little on the low side.

R22tech

I actually think that was a fair price for a top end rebuild. It is easy to pay too much for Porsche repair and this owner didn't. As far as why the rebuild? I agree with carrera51's theory and will add that maybe the P.O. missed a shift as is common on the 915 tranny. 5th gear to 2nd gear downshift at high speed will certainly bend or break a valve-requiring a top end rebuild. From your description, this sounds like a good car and should make for a great 1st 911. Do, however, plan on fussing with repairs as this is a 20+/- year old car. The good thing is that you can do alot of this yourself, with the help of rennlist and pelican parts bbs of course.

gerry100

I'm still a novice - but during my search I was advised to look for replacement of the rubber centered clutch in the SCs. Maybe this was included under updates.

hopkinskid

Thank you all for the responses.

Man, I sure I hope this car outlives me, so I can past it down to my kids (about 60 years to go). I hope this car is one of those 250k-300k mile "Bruce-Anderson" type cars. But I'm also prepared for repair costs and such (budget of $17k, but buy this one for $14k). With a budget in the $17k area, my friends are telling me to go with a newer, more expensive 911 Carrera, but I think I'm better off leaving a "little bit" for emergency repairs (or maybe a tranny job in the near future).

Can anyone comment on the leaks found in the 2000 PPI? In 1996, the oil return tubes were replaced. In 2000, there were leaks in the oil return tubes, flywheel seal, oil hose, etc. I know leaks are inevitable, but is this common?

I'm already subscribing to Excellence, will buy the Bentley manual, will buy the 101 projects book, and will spend my free time for the next couple months learning as much as I can about this car. I can't wait.

Thanks again and I hope to put a '83 SC' after my name next time I come post a new topic.

Bill Gregory

You probably already read the 911SC FAQ on rennlist, which can help answer questions. Specifically:

1) I'd want to, if possible, understand what led to a top end rebuild at that low mileage. That may not be possible. The fact the studs were replaced and tensioners installed is a plus.

2)$3500 is on the low end of a top-end rebuild. It is not a rebuilt engine, rather, it's an engine with a top-end rebuild. A rebuilt engine, as someone else mentioned, would include cracking the case and possible bottom-end work. With replaced oil return tubes, they shouldn't have started leaking anytime soon, unless whoever did the rebuild tried to use silicone sealant around the seals at each end, which can get messy quickly. While you might dab some silicone grease (which is not silicone sealer) on the o-rings, it's either that or install them dry. You never use, but I've seen it, silicone sealer or other sealer on the oil return tube o-rings.

3) Compression within 10% is good. What's the leakdown? That's the more telling measure of the internal engine health. Regarding the oil leaks, 911's do leak oil, they should be considered almost normal maintenance.

4)Since you've read quite a bit, you've already developed a list of what to look for, and as long as you're satisfied with the PPI, close on a price you're comfortable with.

Jay H

Hopkinskid:

You are very smart for having a budget of $17k and then buying a 911 for $14k. That's leaves a lot of room for "surprise" repairs and replacing any little stuff to get your new purchase mint or up to your liking.

I agree with Bill on the oil return tubes. I've even heard that the color of the replacement o-rings used in replacing the tubes determines whether or not they may leak. I can't remember... Green ones don't leak, other color one's do...

The oil hose from the engine to the thermostat doesn't seem to be too severe. With a 911 of this vintage, oil lines will deteriorate just due to age. Its just part of the process of owning an older vehicle. I wonder if anyone else has comments on the flywheel seal and diff flange seals?

Good Luck!
Jay
90 964

nostatic

From what I've read, I wouldn't be too worried that they only did a top end rebuild. The bottom end of the engine should be pretty damn robust, so cracking the case at 75K is usually not done. Now if you were at 150K and going to do a rebuild, that might be a different story...

hermzz

I had my thermostat to engine oil line replaced about 3 months ago due to oil leaks. Parts ran about $90 and the labor was an hour ($80).

hopkinskid

Bill: Thanks for your message. One slight concern I had was the PPI done last year. Compression of 180 across all 6 cylinders was noted on the PPI work sheet. Too good to be true? I will definiltey have a leakdown done next week.

Jay: Thanks. I hope I can knock the price down to around $13.5k. After the PPI, I'll see where the car stands and decide on my final offer.

Hermzz: Do you have leak problems with your Targa? I've heard that it's virtually impossible to get one that does not leak. I'm in California, so it should be alright most of the time. Any tips for the targa top? Any tips on what I should examine on the targa top itself?

Thanks again.

hopkinskid

I found some more information looking through all the papers/work orders that the owner gave me:

8/16/96:
Leakdown test
1,2,4,5,6 = 10%
3 = 30%

Head Stud broken

8/19/96:
Remove/install engine/tran, complete valve job, replace valve guides, replace oil return tubes, replace all 24 head studs, install timing chain update (both sides) = $2200 parts, $1300 labor; total $3500

PPI tomorrow! I can't wait! But can I assume that after the above work, the leakdown numbers should be much better for all 6 cylinder (10%, 30% on bad one before the work was done)?