Clevername

Hi everyone-

I'm considering a coupe 911SC or early Carrera as a "new" car, and had a couple questions about these specific models. The car would be a daily driver (it wouldn't need to be, but I fully anticipate not being able to abstain from driving it everyday ), and would also see regular autocross use as well as a little track time. I would do my best not to modify it much, probably would not move much beyond wheel/tire and suspension changes.

A big question is that I cannot easily find an answer to is how quick the SC really is. I've seen wildly disparate figures from various sources. Obviously the car is not a drag strip monster, but in my mind, a 911 is not just a grand touring car, it's a sports car/race car, and so... I can't tell what difference Euro vs. US spec makes, nor 78-80 vs. 81-83 makes. I know more about the Carrera since I've been reading road tests of it since I was a child; the SC is still more a mystery in comparison.

My other immediate question is less subjective: does anyone know how common the LSD option was for the models I'm thinking of?

For the moment, that's what's on my mind. Any help or observations would be fabulous.

Brandon

expathk

Good questions. I think your asking for answers that are going to be widely opinion based so you wont get a clear answer. Best advice I have is go drive ones for sale. You'll soon decide what you think you want.

As far as Euro vs US specs its mostly in the pollution control and ride heights. The Euro gets the better of both of these IMO.

Good luck with your hunting for the car of your dreams, either way the SC and Carrera are awesome cars.

PS do some searching on the various BB's and you'll get a lot of information that will guide you, and both Excellence and Porsche World and 911 magazines have heaps of reviews and comparisons. I think you'll also find the sensible purchaser will test drive at least a half dozen cars to find the one that suits them. They'll also look at probably twice as many that are basically junk for the money some people try to con you out of. I spent eight months looking at 944's then held out for another two months deciding if I really wanted one. Then decided to go for a 911 and took another four months looking around. Test drove four and finally bought my 'toy' an 87 Carrera Cabriolet. Yeah baby oh behave!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck
Cheers
Mark

Chris Martin

I have been in a number of SC's and Carrera and they were all a little different. Although the power of the SC doesnt seem quite as strong as a Carrera some SC's have been faster around the track than Carrera's. 911's seem to be as fast as the driver is skilled. If you are looking for an out of the box fast car a 911 is NOT it, I think you/we/I need to learn how to drive these cars. After attending a PCA driving school and lots of seat time I am getting better but still a slot slower than some cars I shouldnt be.

Long story short, I dont think my SC is really that fast on the street, friends with rx7's and twin turbo surpra's are much faster than me. Numbers in Road and Track dont come close to how fast I feel in my car though.

Best of luck with your decision, not a bad one to have to make!

Chris

r22tek

Just as a reference point, I organized a spirited mountain drive a few months ago with about 15-20 P-cars attending. Lots of carreras and sc's and a few early and late models. It seemed we were all pretty much equal, with the exception of the really fast 930 slant conv. that was there. I had the opportunity to stnding start and rolling start race an SC in my 85 carrera-both stock- and I was only about 1/4 car length in front of him all the way to triple digits. My point is, there is really no appreciable difference in the perfomance of a Carrera over an SC: the better driver wins every time.

Martin S.

You wrote,"A big question is that I cannot easily find an answer to is how quick the SC really is."

If the motor is in good shape, and the fuel delivery system working well, a SC will pull red line in 5th geat, that is 140 mph. Rocket ship starts in 1st gear are a no/no on the SC and Carrera (915) transmissions. 1st gear is a get it going gear. If you want a 1/4 mile rocket ship, the SC and Carrera are not for you...get a Camaro/Firebird or Mustang...I am not being a smart *** here, these are the facts. If your SC is in good shape, I imagine you could get to the mid 90's in a 1/4 mile, in the 15 second bracket, just an estimate mind you.

The real mystique of the SC and Carrera, IMHO, is how it handles on the road...in one word, incredible. Put on a set of R rated tires, take it to the track with fresh brake fluid and pads and you will scare yourself.

You also wrote, I can't tell what difference Euro vs. US spec makes, nor 78-80 vs. 81-83 makes." Basically, the Euro SCs had slightly higher compression than the US version, and they did not use a Cat Converter. They also lacked a reinforcing bar in the doors, as well as some other minor details. As was mentioned earlier, the ride height was a little different in these so called "Gray Market Cars".

The US cars were delivered fairly well "loaded" with leather interiors, sun roof, etc. The Euro cars could be obtained with cloth interiors, sunroof delete, and consequently could be lightern (Faster). If you want a nice little Euro rocketship, get a 77 Carrera. It has the SC flares, the SC motor, which was taken from the Turbo motor.

LSD is out there. I did not have it on my 80SC Weissach Coupe. When it was time to freshen up the tranny (@100,000 miles, as night follows day), I dropped a 85 Carrera transmission in there with a LSD. Some question the long term rugged character of the LSD supplied to Porsche by ZF. These folks have gone to Quaife, or some other aftermarket (GT) provider.

The SC is an extremely rugged motor, with reports of it going 300,000 mils before a rebuild. I have been on the track in my neighbors 78SC. It has about 200,000 miles on a rebuilt motor...it runs real well, very fast. The advantage of the Carrera motor (84 to 89), it has Motronic electronic ignition and can be chipped for some additional HP, maybe 15 HP. It also has slightly smaller rod journals and some have reported problems when these motors are driven very hard, such as frequent time trials. As most well tell you, buy the best Porsche you can afford, and be certain to get a pre-purchase inspection from a reputable shop. If you don't know of one, simply post to Rennlist and ask the question. Best of luck in the new car.

Stephen Masraum

If you are looking for more info and are willing to do some reading the two best books out there are Bruce Anderson's "Porsche 911 Performance Handbook" and Paul Frere's "Porsche 911 Story." Both are excellent and packed with tons of technical info.

The Euro models usually had higher compression ratios which require higher octane to resist detonation. The difference between the SC's and Carrera's will be relatively small in straight line speed. I can tell you from first hand experience that a Carrera with +100K miles will redline in 5th which puts you at 150mph. They are actually quite speedy in a straight line, but you are crazy to do any standing start drag racing because it'll really stress the drivetrain. If you can get a really great SC for the same price as a decent Carrera get the great SC. Look on the Rennlist classifieds and at your local PCA classifieds, you may have a better chance of finding a car that has been really well cared for by an enthusiast.

Great advice given above. Drive as many as you can even if you don't like the color or it's a bit out of your price range. The more experience you have behind the wheel the better informed a decision you'll make when the time comes.

Bill Gregory

If you haven't already, you might check the 911SC FAQ at tech.rennlist.com .

gerry100

I've had my '86 Carrera about 4 months, purchased it to replace my previous toy ( '94 6 spd,LT1 Corvette )-

For what it's worth-

- you will drive it every chance you get- I check the weather every morning to see if it's a " Porsche day". The Vette was more like a thrill ride that I had to be in the mood for.

- the Vette had brutal accelleration and awesome grip but no feed back and a very heavy feel- I soon reached the limits of what I could do with it. The P car gives incredible feedback with a light feel and because of the low masses and inertias,instant responses.

With more seat time (and a DE event)I believe that few Vette drivers ( including myself) would ever catch me in the twisties 300hp or not.

Bottom line - Lots of Cars will have better 0-60s and g numbers but will not stay with the you/Pcar combo.

- on quickness - an SC or Carrera is a 7-8 second car but I wouldn't try proving that very often due to wear on the drivrtrain.

For accelleration at high speeds ( 60-100mph) I think my Carrera out performs the Vette. High speed passes make my day.

- On the purchase - I bought the second one I drove because the original owner loved the car, had a 2" thick file of all the maintenance and had recently had the clutch done.

I woudn't pay neaar market value for any car without records - repairs on a poorly maintained car and add up to half the purchase price.

My 2cts.

Stephen Masraum

I agree with most of what Gerry100 said. As he said the high speed passes using 3rd and 4th gear are pretty amazing. But, what he said about the 0-60 I would have to disagree with. The 3.0L and 3.2L cars might be 7-8 sec cars if you are launching them lightly which is best, but if you are throwing numbers around for comparison that can be very misleading. Shoot you can get 4 and 6 cyl grocery getters that fall into the 7-8 sec territory. Looking at all of the magazine reviews of the 3.2L cars they all listed the 0-60 times as being anywhere between 5.2 and 6.1 secs. Granted to get those times you'd have to be launching your car really hard, but I would think that with a moderate launch you could easily be in the lowto mid 6's. We have seen those numbers reported on the email list from people using the G-tech pro. Someone also posted his 3.2L 1/4 mile times and I believe was getting very low 14's or just nicking the high 13's. I would say still extremely respectable even today. Not that it's really that big a deal, but I didn't want anyone moping around because they thought their car was slow by the traditional bar.

gerry100

Steve's right - my '86 is shows about 6.3 0-60 from the factory manual, what I meant to say was 7-8 secs in everyday driving. if you start drag racing the grocery getters you soon won't be able to afford groceries yourself.

I've been at a stop before a atretch of twisties and sensed being watched by the non Porsche sporty car behind me. They are wondering if they can stay with the Icon.
If I drive the road smoothly but agressively I soon see them fading back and looking busy. I know they are wondering why they have their hands full and you and your Pcar are getting smaller after every bend.

Carrera51

Brandon:
I don't think you'd go wrong with either an SC or Carrera. Whichever you decide to buy, take your time looking. There are alot of 911s out there that are not properly maintained and could turn into a headache. I would by from a private seller. Make sure the seller has all the maintenance records. I would be leary of any car that has been repainted and would have a tech who knows how to spot body work go over the car thuroughly. Take any car you are interested in to a Porsche tech for a pre purchase inspection. A properly maintained SC or Carrera motor will easily run well past 100K miles without the need of a rebuild.

Remember, be patient. I looked for 9 months in 1999 before purchasing my 84 Carrera. It had high miles but was completely stock and had never had any paint or bodywork. With the exception of the rock chips on the nose, valance and mirrors. The motor is still going strong at 165K miles and I do a lot of DE and some club racing with it.

There's an SC listed in the classifieds on the PCA Potomac webpage. Go to www.pcapotomac.org

carrera

I am assuming that the carrera you make reference to is the 84-89.
An "early" carrera is very different.
The decision between an sc and a carrera is purely a personal one.
They are both excellent cars and very fun to own and drive.
As a first time purchaser I think the only thing you should be concerned with is your budget, and the condition of the car.
Are you aware of the transmission differences of the carrera line?
You really should drive an 87-89 before you make any decisions.
These cars have a hydraulic clutch and a smoother shifting gearbox.
This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the 915 present in the other carrera's and sc's just that they are a transmission that requires a little more concentration.
Personally I prefer the 915 as it is more "fun" to drive.
Everyone has a different opinion so what you need to do is drive a number of these cars and then see what you liked or disliked and make a decision from there, it probably will not be very important to you whether one is slightly faster than the other.
And in case you really need to know the carrera is faster at higher speeds and the two are pretty similar under 100.
And as everyone suggests buy the best car that you can afford, a fixer upper with these cars is rarely a good idea.
Good luck and happy hunting, don't rush into a purchase.

Jgordon

I noticed that Stephen mentioned magazine reviews. I have an 89 Carrera, and I'd love to get my hands on some of the what the press had to say about the car. Any ideas as to where to start?

Thanks.

MelissaM

Jgordon,

Check e-bay! Lots of people sell magazines that have the reviews in them. I bought a couple myself....

-- Melissa