911vet

I'm looking for suggestions on suspension upgrades for my 87 Cabriolet with 116K miles. Has all OE as far as I know (it came with Bilsteins, had the sport suspension pkg 20 yrs ago).

It is also a LSD.

One goal is to reduce oversteer. I'm a better than avg driver, but I'm not experienced enough to know how to really utilize oversteer to my advantage. I'd be better off reducing it somewhat (I think)?

I am willing to sacrifice most of my daily-driver ride quality for performance. I drive VERY twisty roads and I drive VERY spiritedly. I have another car that does most of my daily driver duty.

Here are my questions:
1) what shocks do you recommend? same for front and rear?
2) what size t-bars? Is hollow a real advantage?
3) I probably need to replace many rubber bushings... which ones specifically?
4) do I need some new "other than rubber" compound on the new bushings?
5) For safety reasons, it's time for new ball joints. Anyone think the Monoballs are the way to go?
6) any particular strut tower brace the "best?"

Thanks for any and all suggestions.
The car won't be tracked, but I drive like I'm on the track sometimes

Ed Hughes

Open the floodgates! I'll speak to my personal experience on my '84 which does a number of DE's and the spirited road work.

1. I've got Bilstein sports all around-love 'em. If yours are original, new shocks will be well appreciated. Sports are not harsh in their dampening, IMO.
2. I've got 22/29 T-bars, and was expecting a rock hard ride, I was pleasantly surprized in that it wasn't horrible at all. It is nice and firm.
3. Your t-bar and swaybar bushings can probably use a refresh.
4. Rubber on the sways, and I HIGHLY recommend the Elephant Racing poly-bronze on the t-barts.
5. Ball joints and monoballs are two different things. The recommended upgrade is the Turbo tie-rods which will give you new ball joints. Monoballs are available for your front shock top mounts and the pivot point of your rear trailing arms. Again, Elephant offers these. I've got these in, and they just helped round it all out, IMO.
6. Pick a brace. Triangulated is more rigid. Some don't think they are worth buying, I personally it tied my front end together nicely.

Lastly, you can adjust oversteer with t-bars or adjustable sways. A softer front end will typically induce more oversteer, and a stiffer front end will typically induce an understeer tendency.

Good rubber and proper pressures help too.

You'll end up spending some money, but the car will feel like it's many years younger.

84_Carrera

My setup's in the sig, '84 Cab. I also have Heim'd droplinks for the rear bar.

911vet

Duh, I'm an idiot. I should have looked at the Elephant site again. Now I see what the Monoballs are. I had confused them with their decambered ball joint option.

When I had a PPI done, they said it needed new tie rods. I asked them install the Turbo tie rods. But, I think maybe they only put in new tie rod ends. I've got to admit my ignorance on this. Is there a way to only install "ends" that are turbo but not a whole new rod?

I guess I'll call the shop in Atlanta and find out what they did.

911vet

I'm assuming the Elephant bushings you're refering to for the t-bars are the Poly Bronze Control Arm Bearings on the front?

And the Poly Bronze Spring Plate Bearings in the rear?

Rick K

If you asked for turbo tie rods, and they only put new ends on (which is indeed possible), chances are you may have already had turbos on there to begin with.

Regarding the suspension, it is a slippery slope and could easily sail north of 4K if you go crazy. So, unless you have unlimited budget, you may want to consider starting small. If you're not planning on racing the car, I would say when it comes to the bushings - to just stick w/ some new factory rubber up front (and ask your mechanic if you need it in the back as they are, I believe, more involved to swap out). It will make a big difference in spirited street driving and will be good enough for a DE or two if you choose to go that route. When you start going down the metal bushings route, you are going to get squeaks in the suspension and a performance advantage that, most likely, will only be appreciated if on the track a good amount. And you may limit the potential "buyers" pool if you ever choose to re-sell.

My suggestion (which, by the way, I am doing this week as well), is to get a fresh set of bilstein sports, fresh rubber in the bushings, freshened turbo tie rod ends (which is sounds like you have done) - which will potentially leave you some money for some new tires and a proper alignment.

Beefed up torsion bars are a positive if you have the $ - and a strut brace is a great upgrade.

Best of luck!!

arbeitm

I went the 22/29mm torsion bar set up and am very happy too. I'd say it's probably as stiff as you'd ever want to go on the street. (Maybe others have a higher tolerance than I do.)

I'd also recommend, instead of regular Bilstein HD's or Sports, I went with cutom valved Bilsteins from Smart Racing Products that match the torsion bar rates better. (There are other companies out their that you can go to as well...I used Smart Racing).

You most likely want to replace your spring plate bushings. I went with Neatrix rubber due to financial reasons...but if I could have I would have gotten the poly bronze set up from ERP.

I upgraded to the Carrera 22/21mm sway bars. Obviously the adjustables out there are much better and tuneable, but again...financial reasons.

I also have 7" front with 205's and 9" rears with 245's. That helps reduce a lot of oversteer.

All in all, I love my set up.

g-50cab

I don't think you want to go stiff.

I kept the stock torsion bars - went with Bilstein HD all the way around - rennline monoball front - integrated strut base, turbo tie rods -

I'm happy with the results both track and street

Ed Hughes

Just a note: ERP is not the provider of the Polybronze bushings, Elephant Racing is. Two different companies.

911vet

So far the consensus is 22/29 t-bars with Bilstein Sports or Customs. And new bushings.

I'm trying to find a source for rubber bushings/bearings. Since it seems the Poly bronze are pretty expensive and the Weltmeister replacements can be noisy I think I'll avoid them.

Where do I get the rubber replacements?

Rick: thanks for the reminder about tires. The car came with some pretty decent Dunlop Sports. They are better than I expected. But I know a set of stickier tires is in my future. Doesn't matter what you do to the suspension... it's where the rubber meets the road that counts

LUCKe27

I read through a long thread on Pelican addressing this subject. I think most people were recommending 22/26 rather than 22/29, but I would have to go find it to be sure.

sjanes

Before you start modifying your car, it's important to remember that it's a cab and that it has a lot of body flex. If you make the suspension too stiff, it will end up transferring the load into the chassis. I would suggest for a street driven cab, 21/26 is better than 22/29 (you did want to reduce oversteer correct?). Also, monoballs are great for the track but really not necessary on the street. The polybronze stuff is expensive, but a very good product (they do require routine maintenance though).

Personally, I think the items in the Elephant Racing street performance package #2 (http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...11packages.htm) are pretty close to what you want (whether or not you get them from Elephant is up to you), but I would skip the monoballs on a street car.

911vet

Thanks for the reminder about that. It's a very good point.

I like the way the cab handles when I have my roll bar bolted in. It's a different car. But I've had many people tell me not to use it unless I have hard-back sport seats and seat braces. Seems in a rear-end collision the seats can be propelled back into the harness bar and cause spinal injury.

So... I need to find a way to stiffen up the car but not too much!

sjanes

Brey Krause sells a seat back brace for the factory seat, but even with the rollbar, your car will still flex a lot. I have a Targa with a complete cage, and if I go too stiff on the adjustable sway bars, the chassis flex is noticeable. Even the 996 coupe will flex a lot if the suspension is too stiff.