What is an ///M5
11-21-2007, 06:43 PM
#47
11-21-2007, 07:14 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
I've kinda been into both Porsche and BMW since the early 80's... always seemed that the Bimmer worked out well for me as a daily, and the Porsche for more fun times.. although I've had a couple of 911s that ended up being used for the daily commute.. and not that I was complaing.
On another note, there have been a number of E30 M3s in the MD/DC/VA that have garnered new respect for the 911 after running-up on me in the 73 911S. A few E36s too after the last motor swap!
ked: Way to break it down...
dsmith: Correct.. e30 M3 convs were never offcially imported though there are actually a couple of nice ones around.
11-21-2007, 07:26 PM
#49
I've kinda been into both Porsche and BMW since the early 80's... always seemed that the Bimmer worked out well for me as a daily, and the Porsche for more fun times.. although I've had a couple of 911s that ended up being used for the daily commute.. and not that I was complaing.
On another note, there have been a number of E30 M3s in the MD/DC/VA that have garnered new respect for the 911 after running-up on me in the 73 911S. A few E36s too after the last motor swap!
On another note, there have been a number of E30 M3s in the MD/DC/VA that have garnered new respect for the 911 after running-up on me in the 73 911S. A few E36s too after the last motor swap!
I had a Z3 that I sold in a moment of insanity. I had modified the suspension(TC Kline Coilover package, Koni adjustables, Vogtland springs, larger rear sway bar). It was a handling machine! Mine was the 4cyl 1.9L, but there were M cars that couldn't keep up in the twisties. I miss that and I plan to get the suspension fixed up in my 911.
The 911 handles great. And now that I don't live in deathly fear of the oversteer, I'm starting to appreciate it's handling capabilities.
If I had the money, I would absolutely have a BMW as my daily driver. As it is, I have a rusted out Honda hatchback. But, hey, it might be difficult to put a Siberian Husky in an M3.
If we can just talk BMW into bringing over the 1-series hatchback....
11-21-2007, 09:23 PM
#50
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Porsche cars are "sports cars". BMW cars (with the exception of the Z3) are "sedans" or "coupes".
I don't have any greivance if BMWs are discussed here (or Cadillacs either for that matter). I do find it curious that sedans and coupes, whatever make, are discussed so enthusiastically on a sports car bbs.
If a two ton sedan (or a huge suv with a turbo and a Porsche badge on it) can out-handle/go faster than a sports car (that would be an old Porsche, of course, on this bbs) doesn't in any way equate one with the other, nor is the driving experience in any way similar.
I'd personally find it more interesting to hear about other "sports cars" that are contemporary with our old 911s, that can blow our doors off, or whose doors we can blow off - like my old RX7 R1 TT which, put together with a 911, weigh very little more than an M5 Sedan.
Just an observation.
Oh....HAHAHA! Just looked back and noticed Randy's definition of an M5 - sums it up as far as my interests go
I don't have any greivance if BMWs are discussed here (or Cadillacs either for that matter). I do find it curious that sedans and coupes, whatever make, are discussed so enthusiastically on a sports car bbs.
If a two ton sedan (or a huge suv with a turbo and a Porsche badge on it) can out-handle/go faster than a sports car (that would be an old Porsche, of course, on this bbs) doesn't in any way equate one with the other, nor is the driving experience in any way similar.
I'd personally find it more interesting to hear about other "sports cars" that are contemporary with our old 911s, that can blow our doors off, or whose doors we can blow off - like my old RX7 R1 TT which, put together with a 911, weigh very little more than an M5 Sedan.
Just an observation.
Oh....HAHAHA! Just looked back and noticed Randy's definition of an M5 - sums it up as far as my interests go
11-21-2007, 09:33 PM
#51
Despite my definition (actually a plagiarized quote from a guy who owns a BMW now and a silver '67S), I loved my BMW 2002. The '2' was the contemporary of the 911, not the M5.
BMWs are not just sedans, they are sports sedans. I think it is fine to compare, say, an M3 with a newer Porsche. But the handling will never be the same unless the motor is in the rear...
BMWs are not just sedans, they are sports sedans. I think it is fine to compare, say, an M3 with a newer Porsche. But the handling will never be the same unless the motor is in the rear...
11-21-2007, 10:08 PM
#52
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I never said that they are JUST sedans, just that they ARE sedans, sports or entry level (silly me - that's sooo self evident 
).
For me personally a sports car is a two seater, smaller, lower and lighter than a passenger sedan or coupe, built primarily for performance and fun driving with minimum concessions to weighty creature comforts, luggage space, multi-speaker stereo systems, guardian nanny stability control, etc. - you know what I mean, old school, not a "Grand Tourer", - a SPORTS car. (used to wuz that it had to be a roadster, but I've evolved to accept (and prefer) coupes).
). For me personally a sports car is a two seater, smaller, lower and lighter than a passenger sedan or coupe, built primarily for performance and fun driving with minimum concessions to weighty creature comforts, luggage space, multi-speaker stereo systems, guardian nanny stability control, etc. - you know what I mean, old school, not a "Grand Tourer", - a SPORTS car
. (used to wuz that it had to be a roadster, but I've evolved to accept (and prefer) coupes).
11-21-2007, 10:37 PM
#53
Porsche cars are "sports cars". BMW cars (with the exception of the Z3) are "sedans" or "coupes".
I don't have any greivance if BMWs are discussed here (or Cadillacs either for that matter). I do find it curious that sedans and coupes, whatever make, are discussed so enthusiastically on a sports car bbs.
If a two ton sedan (or a huge suv with a turbo and a Porsche badge on it) can out-handle/go faster than a sports car (that would be an old Porsche, of course, on this bbs) doesn't in any way equate one with the other, nor is the driving experience in any way similar.
I don't have any greivance if BMWs are discussed here (or Cadillacs either for that matter). I do find it curious that sedans and coupes, whatever make, are discussed so enthusiastically on a sports car bbs.
If a two ton sedan (or a huge suv with a turbo and a Porsche badge on it) can out-handle/go faster than a sports car (that would be an old Porsche, of course, on this bbs) doesn't in any way equate one with the other, nor is the driving experience in any way similar.
And I didn't think I'd ever want one...
until I owned one. (Z3)
Still, I tend to agree with you.
I have owned mostly small Japanese "sports cars" (Datsun 240Z, Toyota MR2, Honda CRX Si). It never impressed me that an 8-cylinder gas-guzzling tank could beat me off the start line. So what? You put a big enough engine in anything and it will move fast. What impresses me is eeking out maximum performance from small, efficient engines.
I think it's pretty cool that my 911 will get 24mpg when I'm driving hard. I'd say it's a "fair fight" among cars with nearly equal mpg. Otherwise, you just dump enough gas in a big enough cylinder and, duh, yeah you go fast! Where's the engineering in that?
Look at the Lotus Elise. 4 cylinders and it will kick the butt of most anything out there. And I dare you to try to keep up with it on a curvy road!
What makes something a "sports car?" I don't think you can answer that too easy. For some people, it's got to go 0-60 in less than 5 secs. For some, it's got to handle the twisties. For some, it's got be two seats and no top. (that would be me!)
I'd say that a lot of bimmers qualify for any and all of the above. And it's no suprise that a lot of us Porsche owners still respect the BMWs. But, alas, my heart has always truly belonged to Stutgart.
11-21-2007, 11:23 PM
#54
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I remember looking at BMW sedans and coupes and thinking "sports car? What... no way." Until I drove one.
And I didn't think I'd ever want one...
until I owned one. (Z3)
Still, I tend to agree with you.
I have owned mostly small Japanese "sports cars" (Datsun 240Z, Toyota MR2, Honda CRX Si). I think it's pretty cool that my 911 will get 24mpg when I'm driving hard.
Umm..my RoW gets about 13 to 15 driven hard, got 25 once w/windows up on freeway 85-95 mph run (CIS)
Look at the Lotus Elise. 4 cylinders and it will kick the butt of most anything out there. And I dare you to try to keep up with it on a curvy road!
I know. I want one!
And I didn't think I'd ever want one...
until I owned one. (Z3)
Still, I tend to agree with you.
I have owned mostly small Japanese "sports cars" (Datsun 240Z, Toyota MR2, Honda CRX Si). I think it's pretty cool that my 911 will get 24mpg when I'm driving hard.
Umm..my RoW gets about 13 to 15 driven hard, got 25 once w/windows up on freeway 85-95 mph run (CIS)
Look at the Lotus Elise. 4 cylinders and it will kick the butt of most anything out there. And I dare you to try to keep up with it on a curvy road!
I know. I want one!
History:
82 911SC coupe RoW (SSIs, 223 hp)
99 modified Corvette Hardtop 6spd - the anomaly of the bunch (too big for my taste)
95 RX7 R1
70 240 Z w/280 block, carbs,turbo, 5 spd
Renault Le Car (go figure!)
75 280 Z 5 spd
MG liquid suspension (similar to the Morris)
MGB GT
54 Austin Healey 100 4
59 Bugeyed Sprite stage .4 (first sports car - bought it at Cleveland Jaguar)
A buddy of mine is big-time into astronomy for years - Paul (palsing on the Obsession, Amastron and Bigdob boards). He's got an Obsession 25 w/Servocat & Argonavis - and a trailer to haul it around.
Cheers,
David
11-21-2007, 11:31 PM
#55
Hey! Similar perspectives (also, I was born and spent part of my childhood in Painesville - about 10 miles from Stoddard's in Willoughby).
History:
82 911SC coupe RoW (SSIs, 223 hp)
99 modified Corvette Hardtop 6spd - the anomaly of the bunch (too big for my taste)
95 RX7 R1
70 240 Z w/280 block, carbs,turbo, 5 spd
Renault Le Car (go figure!)
75 280 Z 5 spd
MG liquid suspension (similar to the Morris)
MGB GT
54 Austin Healey 100 4
59 Bugeyed Sprite stage .4 (first sports car - bought it at Cleveland Jaguar)
A buddy of mine is big-time into astronomy for years - Paul (palsing on the Obsession, Amastron and Bigdob boards). He's got an Obsession 25 w/Servocat & Argonavis - and a trailer to haul it around.
Cheers,
David
History:
82 911SC coupe RoW (SSIs, 223 hp)
99 modified Corvette Hardtop 6spd - the anomaly of the bunch (too big for my taste)
95 RX7 R1
70 240 Z w/280 block, carbs,turbo, 5 spd
Renault Le Car (go figure!)
75 280 Z 5 spd
MG liquid suspension (similar to the Morris)
MGB GT
54 Austin Healey 100 4
59 Bugeyed Sprite stage .4 (first sports car - bought it at Cleveland Jaguar)
A buddy of mine is big-time into astronomy for years - Paul (palsing on the Obsession, Amastron and Bigdob boards). He's got an Obsession 25 w/Servocat & Argonavis - and a trailer to haul it around.
Cheers,
David
And, I had a Datsun 280Z after the 240Z. I prefered the totally raw, stripped down, no frills feel of the 240. It was definitely a "real" sports car. I had it in high school. All the other car enthusiasts had El Caminos, Cameros, Trans Ams... my car was like something from outer space back then. WOO HOO!
(but I hated trying to keep the twin carbs in tune!)
Don't apologize for the Renault Le Car. I had a MINI Cooper. We all make mistakes!
Your list is really impressive. Cool cars.
(and for the record, my personal taste is for small, lightweight, cars).
11-21-2007, 11:58 PM
#57
Drifting
11-22-2007, 12:12 AM
#58
Precisely! I doubted them until I led a drive with a couple in tow. They were both autocrossers and the cars were modified (coilovers). Me and a BMW M Roadster could outrun them on the straights, but there was no getting away from them on the curves.
I wouldn't personally want a Miata (unless I was going to autocross, then I'd say it might be high on my list). But they certainly can be impressive on the autocross circuit. Probably because they are fairly inexpensive to buy, keep, and modify.
There are the "hairdresser" Miatas, and then there are the sports car Miatas. I guess you could say that about a Boxster or 911 too. Probably depends on the driver more than the car itself.
I wouldn't personally want a Miata (unless I was going to autocross, then I'd say it might be high on my list). But they certainly can be impressive on the autocross circuit. Probably because they are fairly inexpensive to buy, keep, and modify.
There are the "hairdresser" Miatas, and then there are the sports car Miatas. I guess you could say that about a Boxster or 911 too. Probably depends on the driver more than the car itself.
11-22-2007, 01:08 AM
#59
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Oh absolutely! The Miata is the Japanese reincarnation of the classic British roadster done right!
It aint all about power; it's about balance and handling, feeling integrated with a machine that feels like it's responding almost "neurologically" to your inputs and communicating with you. You think that all the guys with 911Ts are in love with them because they're so powerful? Nope, big power is easy - all it takes is money. Designing and building a car that feels and responds like it's an extension of its driver is a whole other thing - and that aint easy.
Those who relegate the Miata to the ranks of "chick car" are selling the car as well as themselves short (we all know that some guys compensate for their shortness with the power of as many horses as they can afford).
I know several veteran Porsche mechanics who think very highly of the Miata. I'd own one if they made a proper coupe.
Looking back, none of my cars have been more fun to drive than my first one - my mighty 48hp bugeye Sprite!
Shannon - you had one of the original MINI Coopers? They are incredible little cars with an incredible racing history! Read up on them. I almost bought a really sweet Innocenti a couple of months ago.
It aint all about power; it's about balance and handling, feeling integrated with a machine that feels like it's responding almost "neurologically" to your inputs and communicating with you. You think that all the guys with 911Ts are in love with them because they're so powerful? Nope, big power is easy - all it takes is money. Designing and building a car that feels and responds like it's an extension of its driver is a whole other thing - and that aint easy.
Those who relegate the Miata to the ranks of "chick car" are selling the car as well as themselves short (we all know that some guys compensate for their shortness with the power of as many horses as they can afford
).I know several veteran Porsche mechanics who think very highly of the Miata. I'd own one if they made a proper coupe.
Looking back, none of my cars have been more fun to drive than my first one - my mighty 48hp bugeye Sprite
!Shannon - you had one of the original MINI Coopers? They are incredible little cars with an incredible racing history! Read up on them. I almost bought a really sweet Innocenti a couple of months ago.
11-22-2007, 02:07 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Interesting comments. Some are accurate; others completely off. I'm fortunate enough to have a SC, 993 C4S, and M5 currently.
In a straight line, neither Porsche can take the M5. It is a sub 5 second car 0-60. My SC even with SSI headers is about 6.7 seconds. The Porsches have better brakes and will take the M5 on a road course. Because of the weight, you can feel the understeer but it is an extremely well balance car. See this link.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/i...edownload/216/
You never said whether you ran a new M5 or the previous version, which I have. The new one is a high revving 500 HP sedan but the previous version although it only has 400 HP has torque that comes on much earlier in the curve.
The weight that's been discussed is not noticeable except in a slalom. However, it has some features even the Porsche doesn't; namely individual throttle bodies. Those familiar with race cars will recognize what that feature brings.
Bottom line, I'm a Porsche guy but this is the only car I've owned that makes me not miss the Porsche quite so much.
Oh, and the M5 can outrun even a hopped up bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3zOKHNkv-4
Here is a link with the technical stuff under the skin and a shot of my 2003 M5.
http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=18
In a straight line, neither Porsche can take the M5. It is a sub 5 second car 0-60. My SC even with SSI headers is about 6.7 seconds. The Porsches have better brakes and will take the M5 on a road course. Because of the weight, you can feel the understeer but it is an extremely well balance car. See this link.
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/i...edownload/216/
You never said whether you ran a new M5 or the previous version, which I have. The new one is a high revving 500 HP sedan but the previous version although it only has 400 HP has torque that comes on much earlier in the curve.
The weight that's been discussed is not noticeable except in a slalom. However, it has some features even the Porsche doesn't; namely individual throttle bodies. Those familiar with race cars will recognize what that feature brings.
Bottom line, I'm a Porsche guy but this is the only car I've owned that makes me not miss the Porsche quite so much.
Oh, and the M5 can outrun even a hopped up bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3zOKHNkv-4
Here is a link with the technical stuff under the skin and a shot of my 2003 M5.
http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=18
Last edited by autobonrun; 12-24-2014 at 04:30 PM.