Friend's Club Sport for Sale-awesome opportunity for right buyer!
06-05-2002, 06:55 PM
#32
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Stewart,
The Euro (or ROW) CS sounds alittle like my 3.6L conversion, fast, gobs of torque, revs easily past 7,000, etc.
As best I can tell, (from all I've read on the topic) the North American version of the CS didn't really differ much at all from the standard '88 Carrera.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L
The Euro (or ROW) CS sounds alittle like my 3.6L conversion, fast, gobs of torque, revs easily past 7,000, etc.
As best I can tell, (from all I've read on the topic) the North American version of the CS didn't really differ much at all from the standard '88 Carrera.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L
06-05-2002, 07:22 PM
#33
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Oh no....here we go again!!!
There are a lot of differences and I am not going to go into all of them. If nothing else, I would hope we could agree that the CS is unique and NOT just like a regular Carrera.
There are a lot of differences and I am not going to go into all of them. If nothing else, I would hope we could agree that the CS is unique and NOT just like a regular Carrera.
06-05-2002, 08:01 PM
#34
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Hi Richard,
The US 911 Club Sport engine is indeed every bit as factory enhanced as the ROW CSs. All of the factory engine enhancement listed above as reported in 911 & Porsche World was also done to the US version, with the differences I'm aware of being limited to different compression ( as standard Carreras were also ) and fuel curve/ignition timing mapping differences in the engine management unit ( which is a different unit than standard Carrera for both US / ROW CS's )that matct the respective compression / fuel octane requirements. Mine has only a factory lightweight carpet set in the rear, while Brians and I believe Jasons US CS's have a "cargo box" in place of the rear seats.
Jason and I had a fun canyon romp Sunday morning during which I discovered that his CS is nearly as fast as mine.
In fact, the comments made in Excellence #11 ( see post a few above ) were made in reference to a US Club Sport they were testing!
The US 911 Club Sport engine is indeed every bit as factory enhanced as the ROW CSs. All of the factory engine enhancement listed above as reported in 911 & Porsche World was also done to the US version, with the differences I'm aware of being limited to different compression ( as standard Carreras were also ) and fuel curve/ignition timing mapping differences in the engine management unit ( which is a different unit than standard Carrera for both US / ROW CS's )that matct the respective compression / fuel octane requirements. Mine has only a factory lightweight carpet set in the rear, while Brians and I believe Jasons US CS's have a "cargo box" in place of the rear seats.
Jason and I had a fun canyon romp Sunday morning during which I discovered that his CS is nearly as fast as mine.
In fact, the comments made in Excellence #11 ( see post a few above ) were made in reference to a US Club Sport they were testing!
06-07-2002, 12:54 PM
#36
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No, we're not going anywhere "again".
To be sure, the CS was different from the '88 911. Still, I have a distinct recollection of the R&T write-up on the car as my '87 was still very new then and I remember thinking at the time, "Damn, I should have waited a year to buy my Porsche", because I would have gone for the CS instead of a "mere" Carrera. R&T had the HP listed as the same, but the 0-60 was better, since the car was lightened. There was no mention of the engines being blueprinted & balanced, which is a significant enhancement.
Lightweight glass, no engine sound muffling padding, rear seat delete, no sunroof. Total weight saved approx 100-110 lbs? The factory hadn't transformed the CS into the vaunted (and still highly desireable) RS of an earlier decade.
As I recall, there was no price difference. In fact, since certain items were deleted by the factory for weight purposes, the CS sticker was actually less than my "loaded" Carrera.
From a collector's standpoint, as there weren't very many made, the CS today (in reasonably good condition) will be worth more than a Carrera. However, and again from a "collectible" viewpoint only, modified (in a way not easily converted back to stock), the CS probably isn't worth more than any other "worked" 911; unless, of course, you happen to own one, in which case (from what I've gathered here) this is the BEST PORSCHE EVER BUILT!!!
Nice cars? Sure. But then, (and with apologies to Will Rogers), I've never met a Porsche I didn't like.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
To be sure, the CS was different from the '88 911. Still, I have a distinct recollection of the R&T write-up on the car as my '87 was still very new then and I remember thinking at the time, "Damn, I should have waited a year to buy my Porsche", because I would have gone for the CS instead of a "mere" Carrera. R&T had the HP listed as the same, but the 0-60 was better, since the car was lightened. There was no mention of the engines being blueprinted & balanced, which is a significant enhancement.
Lightweight glass, no engine sound muffling padding, rear seat delete, no sunroof. Total weight saved approx 100-110 lbs? The factory hadn't transformed the CS into the vaunted (and still highly desireable) RS of an earlier decade.
As I recall, there was no price difference. In fact, since certain items were deleted by the factory for weight purposes, the CS sticker was actually less than my "loaded" Carrera.
From a collector's standpoint, as there weren't very many made, the CS today (in reasonably good condition) will be worth more than a Carrera. However, and again from a "collectible" viewpoint only, modified (in a way not easily converted back to stock), the CS probably isn't worth more than any other "worked" 911; unless, of course, you happen to own one, in which case (from what I've gathered here) this is the BEST PORSCHE EVER BUILT!!!
Nice cars? Sure. But then, (and with apologies to Will Rogers), I've never met a Porsche I didn't like.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
06-07-2002, 01:52 PM
#37
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Just to throw this in the mix, I was ready Bruce Andersons Performance Handbook re his comments on the CS. He states that the CS Euro had different gearing in the tranny which increase acceleration times. He goes on to states that all US models would benefit from the CS Euro gearing.
06-10-2002, 12:15 AM
#38
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What was the reason for the creation of the CS? Homologation? Porsche had no program to run the 911 in GT. All efforts where directed to the 956/962 program with a small effort directed to the Escort 944 Turbo Cup series. Remember, race on Sunday sell on Monday. Marketing, now that's a possibility. Sales at that time could have been better, Porsche needed an idea to bring the purist back. The M637 option filled that need. It wasn't 'till the development of the Cup Car Program that racing efforts began towards the 911. This began with the 964 model, and the RS was reintroduced, first with C4 RS, then the Cup Cars. The last RS was in '83 with the 954, aka SCRS. Do you think Porsche would build a special run of engines just for the street, without plans to officially race the car?
d.
d.
06-10-2002, 02:45 PM
#39
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Regardless of weather or not you THINK they would or should build such a run of enhanced motors "for the street". The FACT is ( according to Porsches own literature ) The CS was, though street legal, "intended primarily for club level RACING activities" and DID recieve factory enhanced engines as outlined very clearly in several well respected and credible sources such as 911& Porsche World and Excellence. If there is still any doubt, have a look at Porsche Factory "Information Tecknik" titled " 911 Carrera CLUB SPORT-Version" It is Factory Part # WKD 494 021 , and among thirteen pages of information on the specifics unique to the CS, the engine ( higher rev limit, Hollow valves, "SP" markings which denote special balancing, ect. ), and most other differences are clearly outlined.
