Phil

amazing has it may be.....What was the selling price of the Club sport by mr Howe?...I think it was never even mentioned?...Of course being that it is a " grey" market, "no" cat's, "euro" headlights, " safty bumpers".....It could not even command a Premium Price.....JUST KIDDING>>>>>

J-RAD

S Howe:

No one was dissing your car! Jason's original post stated, "The owner has really tricked it out". My point was that, generally speaking, rare cars, such as the CS seem to command a higher premium when left untouched. Simple as that. It appears that you read MUCH more into my post than was intended....to quote YOU back to you, "Funny how some folks will take a limited amount of information and form negative opinions strong enough to expound upon them on a public web board such as this." Furthermore, I think that I very clearly understand the subject of gray market cars...look at my signature, stupid ***!!! Enough said!

S Howe

It's not news to me that you have an '82 Euro SC, but just because you know what was done to IT, doesn't mean you know what was done to mine which is different by seven model years and therefore required very little by comparison in order to pass certification.

Let's not bring down the level of posts here further, if you feel the need to continue name calling and flame throwing, which I regrettably entered into in defence of one of the finest 911s ever produced, never mind my work address, come by my home anytime you feel up to it. 1313 Ocean Front Walk #6, Venice.

Talk, including mine, is cheap. Drop on by.

My apologies to the rest of the group.

J-RAD

S Howe:



Dude, you need to grow up!!! Once again, since you obviously missed it the first time, NO ONE IS DISSING YOUR CAR! The thing is, that despite what you or I may think about gray-market cars, the fact remains that these cars typically bring a slightly lower price in the market...like it or not. That is not to say that a Euro car can't bring the same price as a N.A. car. It just takes the RIGHT buyer, as I said earlier. That buyer may come around today, tomorrow, next week, or next year...who knows. Quite frankly, you're way too thin skinned, at least as far as this thread is related, and have made a mountain out of a mole-hill. I don't come here to argue with people. I actually wish you the best of luck in selling you car, if that's what you choose to do...I just hope you take some of the money from the sale and invest in a lifetime supply of Lithium for yourself or something! We're done here.

Biotron

Stewart,
Aside from an interesting post, I for one enjoyed the ride in your 89 CS when you picked me up at LAX and drove me to 2900 PCH last year. You may recall, I purchased an 88 Diamond Blue Targa off the show room floor that day. I also recall your CS as having very low mileage,in great shape, and ran like a wild banshee. Lady's and Gents, "Euro" or not, this is a nice car.

Enjoy the ride.... <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

8 Canary

Last year (2001), I do not think there was a finished exterior building at 2900 PCH (Pacific Coast Highway),much less a showroom floor. The new Pacific Porsche Dealership was only open for bussiness just over a few months ago. All of the Porsche cars and parts were still at the hollowed ground of what was the legendary Vasek Polak Porsche dealership. Sadly this facility no longer supports the sale and maintenance of Porsches.

When I was at 2900 PCH (a beautiful facility) about three weeks ago, waiting for about 53 min. while lil' Jimmmy struggled with the parts reference computer software to find the little damn bolt and front bearing seals I wanted to buy, that they did not even have in stock, I did not see ANY pre-2000 machines on the floor. After I paid Suzy-Q, who was smacking gum and chatting up her friends on the new chic headset phone while Gen-X Jimmy burned up my time, I decided this place was open, but definitely not ready for business! Lots of sizzle, but the steak must still be at Vasek's old place.

Biotron

Jeff,
Thank you, I stand corrected. I'm not from the area. Just recalled the address was on PCH. To be exact it was Hermosa Beach Porsche, 199 Pacific Coast Highway, Hermosa Beach, Calif. I guess I was paying more attention to the ride than the address.
I hope your day got better.....

druck

One thing that hasn't been addressed about Mr Howes "wonderful car" is the fact that the Euro motor is running 10:1 compression on CA gas, 91 octane at best. He also claims that the car has 243 hp as per the ad. Unless a chip was installed to compensate for the lower octane gas, I can't help but think this poor car might be detonating quite frequently. What differentiates this car from a grey market car? This car was better of being left alone, trailer it to d/e's, run race gas, and maintain it's value untouched. BTW, the radio doesn't belong.
d.

druck

Jason's car is truly unique, it's the only US CS car in that colour, in the US. That was an incredible find on his part.

88clbsport

Thanks Druck,
I am not only very proud of the car, but enjoy the driving experience immensely. I bounced back and forth this weekend from my c4s and it is not quite night and day, but a big difference.

As far as radio is concerned, I believe it was deleted on CS's but there was the space for it AND the speakers. I could be wrong, but mine came that way from the factory and I think Stewart's is the same. The car sounds so awesome I never listen to the radio anyway!

S Howe

Druck and all,

911 & Porsche World has reported Euro CS's dynoed at between 240-245 hp. Due to the fact that the engines were blueprinted and hand balanced by the motorsports "Werks" division for all CS's, I find no reason to doubt this. US CS's reportedly put out around 225-230 for the same reason, as well as having a higher rev limit ( tach face indicates higher redline ) and different factory chip, as mine does.

You are correct about the compression and fuel requirements. Jason and I made a stop before our 88/89 CS canyon run Sunday morning at Canyon Service where I toped off, as I have since the car became mine, with a mix of 100/91 unleaded. It has never been run below 96PON/98Ron per factory spec. For me, worth the cost/hassle.

Much testing was done for US road certification, but rest assured, aside from internal bumper struts to replace rigid brackets, center brake light and MPH speedo, this CS HAS been left alone.

Some of the confusion may come from the fact that older "Gray Market Era" 911s typically required changes to glass, door bars, engine management ect. I re-installed the H4's and tail light lenses, and the car is as delivered by the factory, brake light, speedo and struts aside.
I did alot of research before bringing this car in, and would prefer a US car to a "molested" Euro car myself. I hardly think a third brake light and MPH speedo makes much of a difference, especially when magic of a CS is the engine, and how it feels on the road or track. Wonderfull.

I'd have to agree with you about the radio, but the factory saw fit to equip this and most CS's with them, so mine stayed. I was curious as to if a German unit would work here, and oddly enough, it is calibrated for different frequency reception, so that it works perfectly, but displays different station frequency numbers than expected (95.5 shows as 96.4 ect.). Interesting.

The reason I went to such great legnths to have this car is that I got to know how special the CS's are from being around by friend Brians White '88 at POC events. I didn't want a white one, which most of the 28 US CS's are. After missing out on one Black and one Blue one ( US ) I looked into what would need to be changed to road certify a left hand drive Euro CS. When I found out how little needed changing, and NOTHING that affected performance or asthetics ( aside from the brake light ), I decided the higher performance and unique among unique nature of a Euro CS was worth looking into. After months of global searching, this "one of one" Linnen Gray CS was found, checked out, imported, and has been a joy for nearly two years.

Granted, very few people hold the CS in high enough regard ( typically those who have only read about, yet never driven one ) to appreciate just what this particular car is all about.

I guess Porsches own ad slogans sum it up best: "Absolutely the wrong car for so many people" and " This is a car produced not to mean something to everyone, but everything to someone"

I feel very fortunate that for a while now, that someone has been me.

Best regards to all.

88clbsport

I think Stewart's comments on the CS hit the nail on the head. I can't put my finger on it because I am not a very experienced competitive driver. I have driven and ridden in a lot of cars and I can easily say the CS is something different.

I love the Porsche ad slogans...especially the "absolutely the wrong car for so many people"

BTW, should I be running higher than 91 Octane in my CS? I would appreciate the feedback even though it is a little off topic

druck

Euro CS engines are standard issue 930/20(possibly the 930/26 engine,this was for the Swedish market) units with "SP" designation. These engines where selected for CS cars because they produced the highest power figures within the deviation of the dyno numbers. The heads also have the "SP" designation. All Porsche did was select the engines that had the closest spec's to the actual blueprint of the engine. That's it. Interpret this anyway you wish. "..blueprinted and hand balanced by the motorsports Werks division" is quite amusing. BTW, Porsche 911 engines are the closet thing to a blue printed engine you'll get.
The CS option was available for all the models, M637. 928CS, 944CS, 968CS, it's not just in the 911 configuration.
d.

Goat

Oh, you all sound so authoratative, so certain. Who to believe? Too bad Roland can't be bothered anymore.

S Howe

Druck and all,

Submitted for your further amusement....

The following was published in 911& Porsche World #61:

"So what exactly had Zuffenhausen changed to make the Club Sport such a dramatically different animal from the standard 3.2 Carrera? For a start, every Club Sport engine was 'blueprinted', that is to say assembled using components manufactured as closely as possible to the exact dimensions the designer specified.
Now all Porsche engines are made to exacting tolerances, so it would seem difficult, if not impossible , to improve upon them. But given time for tasks such as the carful selection of six perfectly catched pistons from a batch of say, a hundred, the balancing of every reciprocating component, the matching of compression ratios between cylimders, and a host of other tweaks, it is possible to make useful, measurable gains.
Where the black art of the skilled engine builder adds even more power is in screwing together all the aforementioned parts in order to achieve the minimum of internal resistance to rotation. So a genuinely blueprinted engine should not only spin faster without complaint, but it should also produce more torque- and, therefore, more power- across the rev range.
Porsche claimed no more horsepower from the Club Sport engine than for its standard 3.2-litre unit of the period, although reliable sources suggest dynamometer figures of 245bhp, a usefull increase over the 231bhp of a stock 911 Carrera. Incidentally, the cylinder barrels and heads of these blueprinted Club Sport powerplants were stamped 'SP' for identification, and a seemingly minor but actually quite signifficant internal change was the adoption of lighter, hollow stemmed valves.
In order to take advantage of this improved build-quality Porsche specified a revised DME engine-management system. Among other things, this raised the rev-limit to 6840 rpm, although in practice this still seems far to low. So good was the blueprinting process, in fact, that these engines invariably feel as if they will continue to pull way beyond that limit."

From Execllence #11:

"Acceleration from 100 to 150 mph proved so relentless that we nervously checked the gear lever during our pass to make sure the car was really in fifth gear. The pull of the 3.2 litre engine is so strong from 5,000 to 6,500 rpm that the Club Sport lunges to its top speed with uncanny ferocity. Whereas many 911s we have driven take miles of clear highway to achieve maximum velocity, the Club Sport is a different proposition. Its throttle response in the upper rev ranges of top gear is nothing short of phenomenal."

Hmmm..........