84_Carrera

Ok more info:
Old ignition switch was good, not the problem.
Old starter was good, not the problem.
New ignition switch from eBay is a cheap POS, but was not the problem. It did, however, come apart when we tried to remove the harness connector from the switch, at which point the car started (key on, testing wire voltages at the time).

With the old switch off the keylock, using a philips screwdriver, the car starts fine. Put the electrical part back on the mechanical part of the ignition switch, and it won't engage (key turns, doesn't trigger the ignition).

Repeated that twice, works outside of the mechanical part, not at all with it mounted in place.

So, has anyone dealt with the mechanical part of the keylock not engaging the electrical part enough? Is this 100% the fault of the mechanical part, and a new $540 mechanical switch will fix this? Gotta be sure before dropping more money on this... I'm at $165 + pizza & time already...

Good news: I have shaved more weight off the car with the lightweight starter.

madmmac

Did you do the cleaning procedure I mention on page one?

This has saved a lot of people....including myself.

84_Carrera

Yep, used Berryman's B12 Chemtool, but only pre-wet the key repeatedly. Junk came out for about... 100 or so key in / key out cycles.

I did intend on cleaning more with the electrical switch removed, but was thinking along the lines of, "what's the point IF the mechanical side is knowingly fragged", which is why I re-posted.

Thanks guys, appreciate the help & insight.

Edward1

Hi

Well I have isolated the problem with my ignition. I have a short somewheres between the yellow wire from the solnoid on the starter to the ignition switch. I bought a new ignition switch with the housing $536.00, bench tested the starter and solnoid as well as a jump betweem the starter hot wire and the solnoid. When jumper wire is used the starter starts right away. The big problem is to locate the location of the yellow wire that goes to the ignition switch. I can trace it up the the point where it goes into the floor pan between the engine and the rear seats past that point I don't have a clue. Trying to located which wire is the correct one at the ignition switch is next to impossible with the short. Would anyone know where the wire is routed and a pin number on the ignition switch of any other help to locate the yellow solnoid? The shop manual does not show any of this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Edward

84_Carrera

IIRC, pin "50" is the one, about horizontal facing the pass side (9:00 if you're upside-down under the dash, looking at the wiring harness at the back of the switch).

Pls double-check that before trusting, I'm going from memory & started drinking 12-18 year Johnnie Walker at 10am this morning for the company Christmas party. Yes, I'm home safe now, I celebrate fairly responsibly.

psychoideas

My current flow diagram shows my yellow starter soleniod wire going to the 14 pin connector on the regulator panel in the engine compartment. there is two in and two out on the same pin of this connector. From there, the yellow wire goes straight to the ignition switch. At the ignition switch it is still Yellow.

Edward1

Hi.

I had ordered the complete ignition switch including the housing as mentioned for a little over $500 bucks thinking that was the problem, that was not the problem, later after testing thought it was a short from the ignition switch because if I jumped it at the starter hot wire to the solnoid it started. After it still not working, I used a jumper cable at the ignition switch connection with the ignition switch removed the starter works. So this elimannates the starter, solnoid and as well a short going to the starter. The first switch I ordered through pelican parts arrived damaged, after much hassle and several weeks later received the replacement part. It does the same as the old ignition switch did. Is it possible that that even though this switch and housing looks like the old part that it is either damaged or it is not compatable with the old part. Has anyone had this problem with replacing the ignition switch? All lights and gauges light up when the switch is turned on. There is voltage at the switch and as mentioned the starter will turn over when jumped with the ignition switch removed and pin 30 and 50 are used to start the engine.

Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


Edward

84_Carrera

Edward... rotate the electrical switch part 90 degrees (female Plus sign). Then reinstall to the mechanical side of the key lock. Turn the key lock as normal, but the car should START with only about 1/8 turn now, as the switch is already "ON" at 12:00. If this is the case, you have EXACTLY the same situation as I do. In my case, it's like the key will only go to about 3:30 / 4:00, instead of say, the required 4:30 / 5:00 to turn the electrical part to "START".

I get ~.093V difference at the starter solenoid & at the 14 pin connector with it installed correctly, but if I let the electrical side hang down under the dash & start with a philips screwdriver, it's fine & starts right up; if I rotate the 90 degrees so that juice is "ON" at 12:00, it's fine too, leading me to believe it's not a short per se, but something on the mechanical side of the ignition switch.

Anyway, that's where I'm at.

Edward1

Hi

Did you replace the ignition switch or is this the original switch that came with the vehicle?
The original swicth was working fine until it started acting up, the new ignition switch and housing do the same as the old.
It would appear to me that with the ignition switch hanging and rotating the switch with a phillip screwdriver it should not make any difference and should work since the key is not needed to start the engine then.
When I take a jumper cable across pin 30 and 50 that it will trun the starter. I will take apart the new switch and rotate as you mention and see how that works. I was so sure it was a short at first, now to be honest I just can't seem to figure it out.

Edward

84_Carrera

Edward:

1) I started exhibiting symptoms as follows: intermittent lack of ignition when turning the key all the way over. Next or 3rd time usually caused start. Just before total failure, I got 1 in 25, then about 1 in 50, then nothing at all. Last part happened over 24-48 hours.

2) I got the input from Pelican & here, I think, that it was most likely the electrical part of the switch; I purchased a $42 version from eBay. This did not fix the problem, so to me the old switch was ok.

3) I was told it might be the 14-pin connector in the engine bay (driver's quarter panel, by fuel filter / coil). I disassembled & cleaned the pins, no change. I checked the grounds at the trans & battery, nothing out of the ordinary.

4) I was told it might actually be the solenoid was finally gone - orig. starter, almost 25 years old / 82k miles. So, I bought a $125 lightweight starter from eBay. This was not the problem, so to me the old starter was ok.

5) So, I figure it's electrical, and I hate electrical. I bring a friend over & we start testing voltages between the battery, fuse panel, ignition switch, connector in the engine bay, and solenoid. We got 0.093V at the solenoid with key to start. Obviously this was well south of the 7.5V min to energize the solenoid. We back out to the 14 pin connector, same reading basically. So we go back to the ignition switch, which is where it got interesting.

6) I told my buddy to just pull the socket off the back of the ignition switch (new one, fully installed under dash), and because we were testing wires, he had the key on still. On his last tug, the switch broke apart - the metal rear casing pulled off, the internals fell out of the switch. However, the car started immediately. We ended up pulling the coil wire to kill the engine.

7) At this point, all I had was the original (and I mean, original 24 year old) switch. We plugged it in, installed it, nothing. After having it start, we knew it was something AT the switch. We remove the electrical switch from the mechanical side, letting it hang there, and turned with a philips... car starts, shuts off, starts, shuts off, no problems. We re-install, nothing. At this point I'm thinking it's a pinched / broken wire that's only showing up when packed in up behind the dash.

8) We also think it MAY be because the switch isn't making quite enough contact, etc., from the key. We rotate the switch 90 degrees so it will still line up properly with the ID pin & 2 mounting screws, and obviously it'll take less clockwise rotation by the key to engage. Sure enough, the the car starts, shuts down, starts, shuts down without issue. This, to me, rules out pinched wire, as the switch is installed up in the dash.

9) This to me means something in the mechanical lock / steering column. At this point, my electrical switch & harness are hanging down under the dash. I use the key to unlock the mechanical side & steering wheel, and the stubby philips screwdriver to turn the ignition switch on. Has worked flawlessly since that night.

I hope this helps with yours. I have tried cleaning the lock, I'll very likely end up buying a new mechanical lock & breakaway bolts, etc. in the end on mine.

Edward1

Hi


Yes, Fred I did place a post on Pelican in hopes that others may have gone throutht the same problem we are going through. I just got finished removing the switch and housing to try the rotation of 90° to see if that works. If it does one would have to drive with the switch and housing dangling since it does not retract the steering wheel lock.

I am at a point that I have tried everything that I can think of to fix this problem. It is fustrating since seems to me it points to the switch. Wonder if the part I bought from Pelican is the correct replacement for a 911, I may try to call today and maybe see if they can shed any light in the matter.

Hope you have a Nice Christmas!

If I run across any solution to our problem I will surely let you know.


Edward

Edward1

Hi

This is an update on my ignition problem.

This is where I am at present with my ignition problem.
1. Replaced the complete ignition switch, not the problem.
2. Bench tested starter and solenoid, not the problem.
3. Replaced the DME relay switch, not the problem.

I can start the engine by using a jumper across ignition switch pin 30 and 50.

I am maybe of the opinion that maybe the DME control unit may be bad, but will not spend the mnoey until I can come up with some way to test the DME module. Maybe someone has a schematic and a way to test the unit using an Ohm meter. None of the shop manuals have anything on testing the unit that I can find.

Happy New Year to all.


Edward

84_Carrera

Edward, we had someone local have a low voltage at battery being an ignition problem source this weekend.

Also, have you tried using ONLY the electrical side of the ign switch plugged into the wiring harness (hanging down under the dash) and turning with a phillips screwdriver?

Recurring suggestions on mine were checking the ground straps at the battery & transmission, and the 14 pin connector in the engine bay.

Mine runs consistently, but only with the ign switch as described above... turn key for release of steering wheel, phillips for turning the car over.

Edward1

Hi

Yes I have tried with the phillips screwdriver, which does not work, however using a jumper cable across pin 30 and 50 it will start. It will not work with the screwcriver with the old ignition switch and the new one I rec ently bought from Pelican Parts. By all rithts it would appear that the ignition switch is not working, but one would think that Pelican Parts sells reputable parts, one would think to say the least.

Edward

Edward1

Hi

It has been a while, and I am still having my ignition problem.
1. I have replaced the entire ignition switch, as well as the switch housing. Tried rotating the switch, with no luck
2. Replaced the DME relay switch.
3. Bench tested the starter and solinoid. (When hen starter is reinatalled all I get is .72 volts at the solinoid. )
4. Cleaned the connection in the engine bay, cleaned all contacts.
5. Checked the voltage at the coil, have 12V.
6. Checked all fuses in engine bay.
7. Jumped point 30 and 50 on the ignition switch. Starter turns when jumped.
8. Tested all fuses in trunk compartment.
9. Checked all earth contacts that I can find, all seem to be alright.

I am at a point where I am not sure where to go next. I would be very nice to be able to have the car taken to a Porsche repair shop, but this is the problem none around here.

Does the DME control box have any thing to do with starting the engine? The Shop manual does not offer any help in this section on the DME.

I would certainly appreciate any advise being offered.

Thanks


Edward