RoW 1981 911sc rebuild or replace engine?
10-07-2007, 11:20 AM
#1
RoW 1981 911sc rebuild or replace engine?
I need to decide what direction to go in with my motor?
Car Background:
1981 911sc RoW model with 129k miles on the clock. It is very original and I know the engine # matches, but suspect that the trans. # doesn't match because according to the record it was replaced with a used tranny in 1998. The tranny is from an 1981-83 sc, but doubt a RoW model since it was replaced in the US. The interior is very good and only needs carpet, and front seat covers, new steering wheel and some fixes done to the door pockets to be immaculate. The paint isn't bad, but could use a new coat, the old paint is chipping off in some areas. The body is good with minor surface rust @ the window corners.
The Stock Engine:
I have taken the engine almost entirely apart, rods still on crank & bearing shells in case, It's status can be seen here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=309970
It basically had many broken exhaust studs, 1 broken piston ring land, damage to 1 cylinder head from gasket mashing into it (hopefully can be fixed by machinist), no carrera tensioners, I took the heads apart and they look ok but I should have a valve job done and new guides put in, cams have some bad spots need repair/regrind, some of the rod bushing show wear but the rods look ok, probably needs need fuel injectors.
I have already purchased a set of used Mahle pistons and cylinders w/ new rings for $630 that are US 9.3 CR. see post here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=324293
I am calculating costs and it looks to be around $8-10k to rebuild my 3.0L and keep the car original.
The Option Engine:
I could get a 3.6l w/ low miles from a 993 or 964 for $6-8k and install it for another $3-4k. I know performance wise this is hard to beat.
I am wondering if I would lose value in the car by going with the 3.6l install? I am thinking this might be more important the car being RoW and worth more than a US? I would need to sell the 3.0l to help cover the costs of the new transplant either as a whole or in parts. So the car would lose its matching RoW block. It would be much faster to drop in a used 3.6l. I will do most the work except for required machining etc. I would also hate it if I didn't rebuild the engine very well and put all the $$ and time into it. I am mechanically inclined, but not a experienced Porsche mechanic either. Started my library though.
I know of a 3.6l available right now for $7k with oil cooler and lines, brain and all the accessories with the engine that I want. It has 45k orig. miles, burns no oil, sound great and is in a running 1992 C2 with a messed up tranny that is being parted out. I have to make a decision by tomorrow on this motor so any quick advice is much appreciated. Should I try and grab the brakes as well? How much are they worth? Sorry for the length of the post.
Car Background:
1981 911sc RoW model with 129k miles on the clock. It is very original and I know the engine # matches, but suspect that the trans. # doesn't match because according to the record it was replaced with a used tranny in 1998. The tranny is from an 1981-83 sc, but doubt a RoW model since it was replaced in the US. The interior is very good and only needs carpet, and front seat covers, new steering wheel and some fixes done to the door pockets to be immaculate. The paint isn't bad, but could use a new coat, the old paint is chipping off in some areas. The body is good with minor surface rust @ the window corners.
The Stock Engine:
I have taken the engine almost entirely apart, rods still on crank & bearing shells in case, It's status can be seen here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=309970
It basically had many broken exhaust studs, 1 broken piston ring land, damage to 1 cylinder head from gasket mashing into it (hopefully can be fixed by machinist), no carrera tensioners, I took the heads apart and they look ok but I should have a valve job done and new guides put in, cams have some bad spots need repair/regrind, some of the rod bushing show wear but the rods look ok, probably needs need fuel injectors.
I have already purchased a set of used Mahle pistons and cylinders w/ new rings for $630 that are US 9.3 CR. see post here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=324293
I am calculating costs and it looks to be around $8-10k to rebuild my 3.0L and keep the car original.
The Option Engine:
I could get a 3.6l w/ low miles from a 993 or 964 for $6-8k and install it for another $3-4k. I know performance wise this is hard to beat.
I am wondering if I would lose value in the car by going with the 3.6l install? I am thinking this might be more important the car being RoW and worth more than a US? I would need to sell the 3.0l to help cover the costs of the new transplant either as a whole or in parts. So the car would lose its matching RoW block. It would be much faster to drop in a used 3.6l. I will do most the work except for required machining etc. I would also hate it if I didn't rebuild the engine very well and put all the $$ and time into it. I am mechanically inclined, but not a experienced Porsche mechanic either. Started my library though.
I know of a 3.6l available right now for $7k with oil cooler and lines, brain and all the accessories with the engine that I want. It has 45k orig. miles, burns no oil, sound great and is in a running 1992 C2 with a messed up tranny that is being parted out. I have to make a decision by tomorrow on this motor so any quick advice is much appreciated. Should I try and grab the brakes as well? How much are they worth? Sorry for the length of the post.
10-07-2007, 11:22 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Put the 3.6l in it and grab the brakes too and never look back...modern day performance in an older lighter car!!!
As for the purist part...I am...but its doesnt matter what year the part is from as long as its a PORSCHE part it works for me.
As for the purist part...I am...but its doesnt matter what year the part is from as long as its a PORSCHE part it works for me.
10-07-2007, 11:32 AM
#3
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'd do the rebuild. You never know what you're buying when you get a used engine unless you open it up. You're headed for a rebuild at some point with a used engine you're just hoping it won't be soon by buying a low miles engine. With the 3.0 rebuild, you can make a performance engine that will give you everything you need on the street and you'll know the quality of the build and how long it will last.
10-07-2007, 11:57 AM
#4
Team Owner
Sounds like you are all over the map with all due respect. Here are my personal opinions.
1 . don't worry about resale value and matching numbers, it is a run of the mill SC and is not worth that much anyway,it's not like we are talking about a 73RS. Do you want to be original or not ? that is your first question.
2. if you want to stay original keep on trucking .. 8 grand sounds steep if you are doing the work yourslf, but at the end you are still going to have a car worth around 20 G max. if you try to sell it.
3. If you upgrade the motor you will definitely limit your market as fewer people will want a "moded" car. But for those looking for one it would be good car to buy. so you should get high value but may take longer to sell.
One of the guys in our local group has a 3.6 varioram in his SC with custom exhaust and the thing screams
1 . don't worry about resale value and matching numbers, it is a run of the mill SC and is not worth that much anyway,it's not like we are talking about a 73RS. Do you want to be original or not ? that is your first question.
2. if you want to stay original keep on trucking .. 8 grand sounds steep if you are doing the work yourslf, but at the end you are still going to have a car worth around 20 G max. if you try to sell it.
3. If you upgrade the motor you will definitely limit your market as fewer people will want a "moded" car. But for those looking for one it would be good car to buy. so you should get high value but may take longer to sell.
One of the guys in our local group has a 3.6 varioram in his SC with custom exhaust and the thing screams
10-07-2007, 12:07 PM
#5
Both good points...... The 3.6l is in a running 1992 993 w/ only 45k miles.
I checked out the trans Id. It is a 915/63 which I believe indicates a us or cdn model, year 1982. Not the stock RoW. Got this form this post: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...light=915%2F63
Leaning toward the 3.6l........Time, headache, and even maybe money savings (by selling the 3.0 (parts)) by going this way.
I checked out the trans Id. It is a 915/63 which I believe indicates a us or cdn model, year 1982. Not the stock RoW. Got this form this post: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...light=915%2F63
Leaning toward the 3.6l........Time, headache, and even maybe money savings (by selling the 3.0 (parts)) by going this way.
10-07-2007, 12:10 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
It's always harder to enjoy a car if you let fear of resale value be your guide. Besides, the tech guys in Excellence are always beating down the value of ROW cars in the US.
Some future buyers will see the 3.6l upgrade as a good thing. Some won't. To me it sounds like a pain in the *** compared to a simple engine rebuild, but whatever. It would be a whole lot easier to bore up .2l and get some cams.
So WTF, drive what you want to drive, and don't worry about guessing what the next guy wants.
Steve
84 Carrera
64 356C race
10-07-2007, 01:29 PM
#7
Team Owner
It's always harder to enjoy a car if you let fear of resale value be your guide. Besides, the tech guys in Excellence are always beating down the value of ROW cars in the US.
Some future buyers will see the 3.6l upgrade as a good thing. Some won't. To me it sounds like a pain in the *** compared to a simple engine rebuild, but whatever. It would be a whole lot easier to bore up .2l and get some cams.
So WTF, drive what you want to drive, and don't worry about guessing what the next guy wants.
Steve
84 Carrera
64 356C race
Some future buyers will see the 3.6l upgrade as a good thing. Some won't. To me it sounds like a pain in the *** compared to a simple engine rebuild, but whatever. It would be a whole lot easier to bore up .2l and get some cams.
So WTF, drive what you want to drive, and don't worry about guessing what the next guy wants.
Steve
84 Carrera
64 356C race
absolutely.. when I bought my house my wife wanted to paint it neutral for resale ... so in the meantime for the next 20 years i have to "live with it ? " I don't think so ..
Trending Topics
10-07-2007, 06:04 PM
#8
I like 81 ROW engines, but it won't pull like a 3.6. Both are good options. You could have a real hot rod on your hands.
My 81 ROW had a top end before I got it. I assume because of guides or studs. It is a great engine that burns no oil, no smoke at startup and pulls on up to the rev limiter. They are good engines when done up right.
I would probably go for the 3.6 if I knew I was going to have a runner in the end. Absolute power and all that. However in autocross situations I don't think a 3.6 would help a whole lot. On a track or on the road I think it would be great to blow off a lot of newer cars and be a great driver. LOL
My 81 ROW had a top end before I got it. I assume because of guides or studs. It is a great engine that burns no oil, no smoke at startup and pulls on up to the rev limiter. They are good engines when done up right.
I would probably go for the 3.6 if I knew I was going to have a runner in the end. Absolute power and all that. However in autocross situations I don't think a 3.6 would help a whole lot. On a track or on the road I think it would be great to blow off a lot of newer cars and be a great driver. LOL
10-07-2007, 11:07 PM
#9
Well I pulled the trigger! I will be picking up a 1992 964 3.6l motor next weekend. I will get the oil cooler and lines as well as a list of stuff:
Ok here is the list of parts I would like included w/ the engine:
Throttle cable
Engine wiring harness
All Vacuum hoses
Smog equipment
Alternator (I think is behind the fan stuck to engine)
Flywheel and flywheel sensor for computer
Exhaust, muffler, cat w/ O2 sensor and wiring
Power steering w/ lines
Distributors
Coils
A/C and lines
Engine tin
Air filter hosing, etc.
Fuel Pump, filters and lines (if not too much trouble)
Starter
DME computer and wiring harness to engine and car
Motor mounts
Oil reservoir
Front oil cooler, lines, fan w/ wiring harness
Cruise control module (maybe part of trans?)
Other Desired items:
Front & Rear calipers and rotors
Steering wheel? gray?
oil temp gauge if it has #'s instead of lines
Anything I am missing that I can get off the car for my 911sc?
I now have a rebuildable 3.0l for sale!!!
Ok here is the list of parts I would like included w/ the engine:
Throttle cable
Engine wiring harness
All Vacuum hoses
Smog equipment
Alternator (I think is behind the fan stuck to engine)
Flywheel and flywheel sensor for computer
Exhaust, muffler, cat w/ O2 sensor and wiring
Power steering w/ lines
Distributors
Coils
A/C and lines
Engine tin
Air filter hosing, etc.
Fuel Pump, filters and lines (if not too much trouble)
Starter
DME computer and wiring harness to engine and car
Motor mounts
Oil reservoir
Front oil cooler, lines, fan w/ wiring harness
Cruise control module (maybe part of trans?)
Other Desired items:
Front & Rear calipers and rotors
Steering wheel? gray?
oil temp gauge if it has #'s instead of lines
Anything I am missing that I can get off the car for my 911sc?
I now have a rebuildable 3.0l for sale!!!
10-07-2007, 11:17 PM
#10
Team Owner
Well i would hope the engine is complete with everything. That is the whole beauty of these engines. You disconnect the throttle linkage electrical and oil connections and the shifter and everything drops away. I would hope you get the whole shooting match on a skid with DME.
10-07-2007, 11:33 PM
#11
Burgled
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
you might think about getting a block off cover and passing on the power steering. The racks on 964 and 993 are not very robust and will start leaking sooner then later. Itwill cost you a bunch of money to replace when that happens.
10-07-2007, 11:40 PM
#12
Thanks for the tip! I wasn't really thinking about using the power steering, but I might as well get the extra stuff with the engine for the same price. I can try and find a home for it with a 964 owner etc..
10-08-2007, 10:04 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
You have chosen wisely, Dr.Jones. Post pictures of this project!!!
10-08-2007, 04:44 PM
#15
I actually think that I need to see the engine ID # first. I want to make sure it has the good headgasket like the 1993 C2. I guess they changed mid year 1992. I got this from another post, but I believe if the case # is after 62M06836 then it has the head gasket. I am worried with such low miles that if it didn't have the good headgasket, then it probably hasn't been replaced because of the cars low miles. I guess Porsche backed off fixing recalls in 1991 because there were too many over diagnosed leaky engines. I guess the mechanics got a little greedy, but if the thing were designed right in the first place there would be no issue. If this is the case and the engine doesn't have the head gaskets, then I will have to pass on this one.
What do you think? I have heard $4-10k just to fix/update this head gasket issue. Not a route I want to take.
What do you think? I have heard $4-10k just to fix/update this head gasket issue. Not a route I want to take.
