Hi--New 911 Owner
09-21-2007, 12:14 PM
#16
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As for what they CAN do, it depends on what fuel you're using, ambient conditions, engine condition, & more, I'm sure. I get 20/27 mpg with Welt chip. I personally think that Steve Wong's got more brain matter in tune (sorry, no pun intended) with the chips than Welt does & is in more of a situation to tweak for your specific car - usually, the bigger companies find something that works, that people generally don't complain about, then stick with it come Heck or Waist High Water.
I like dealing with a guy who's more responsive to my particular car's needs, and IMO, Steve fits the bill. I just haven't sent him my DME or funds yet, something always seems to come up when I think of it.
(Counting down to Loren's Obligatory reply... Just bustin' on ya L-Man...)
09-21-2007, 04:21 PM
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Good point--if it ain't broke, etc. It's gone 15 years with the chip, may it go another 15....
Regarding aftermarket chips, and this is just based on the reading I've been able to do now, it seems they increase horsepower across the entire RPM band in a consistent manner vs. the stock chip which, if I read correctly, is optimized more for mpg and US gas (I can only get 91 octane here) rather than optimum HP.
It also appears from my reading that Steve Wong has combined science and art with his chip mapping to deliver a closer tuned version than other aftermarket chip mfgs. So, a Steve Wong chip mapped to my engine, exhaust, etc. specs may be a worthwhile upgrade--I'll start the kitty now.
Regarding aftermarket chips, and this is just based on the reading I've been able to do now, it seems they increase horsepower across the entire RPM band in a consistent manner vs. the stock chip which, if I read correctly, is optimized more for mpg and US gas (I can only get 91 octane here) rather than optimum HP.
It also appears from my reading that Steve Wong has combined science and art with his chip mapping to deliver a closer tuned version than other aftermarket chip mfgs. So, a Steve Wong chip mapped to my engine, exhaust, etc. specs may be a worthwhile upgrade--I'll start the kitty now.
09-21-2007, 04:52 PM
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I would say that you pay no penalty in fuel consumption with SW chips.
From what I can understand, the fuel mapping and ignition timing are more aggressive, generally but not always advanced.
This now brings into play the fuel quality available and other engine tune criteria. A word of warning, listen for pinging or detonation, especially under lower revs and load. Sometimes its difficult to hear these engines pinging but you have to learn to recognize it because I think its not real good for your pistons etc......
Another thing with the Motronics box. Once you've bent the tabs open to get at the board and chip, don't bend them back because you will definitely break some eventually. I would suggest swapping out the chips and using the but dyno method to compare, otherwise put it on rollers.
Cheers,
Phil
From what I can understand, the fuel mapping and ignition timing are more aggressive, generally but not always advanced.
This now brings into play the fuel quality available and other engine tune criteria. A word of warning, listen for pinging or detonation, especially under lower revs and load. Sometimes its difficult to hear these engines pinging but you have to learn to recognize it because I think its not real good for your pistons etc......
Another thing with the Motronics box. Once you've bent the tabs open to get at the board and chip, don't bend them back because you will definitely break some eventually. I would suggest swapping out the chips and using the but dyno method to compare, otherwise put it on rollers.
Cheers,
Phil
09-21-2007, 04:55 PM
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I learned long ago that peoples' butt dynos are usually considerably off. I use the same dyno place whenever possible whenever I make a change I'm concerned about, and always when making an air/fuel related change.
One more plus for a Euro Premuffler: more accurate Air/Fuel readings.
One more plus for a Euro Premuffler: more accurate Air/Fuel readings.
09-21-2007, 05:44 PM
#20
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My butt dyno was certified several times by the CHP when I was in high school and has been perty acurate dispite it's 40 year service record. Heck, my butt dyno has been taken to school more times than I have.
(Just curious)
09-24-2007, 12:04 PM
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Thanks for the advise sus911 re: pinging and tab bending, I'll make sure i"m careful when doing that. I think I'll run a comparison between the chips (gear/rpm/mph) and see if there's a significant difference. I'll also track mpg.
FWIW, I probably paid too much--18K--but I figure that gives me 2K to play with, if you subscribe to the 20K figure overall for an 84-86 911.
The car came with all (most?) receipts from the first owner to me (now #4) and it seems the usual work was done: new valve covers, oil lines, Bilstein shocks in the rear, lowered and cornered, CV boots, clutch rebuild, new starter, battery, yada, yada. One thing I didn't see was top end or tranny work and at 105K when I got it, that's something I need to think about. After ~1000 miles, the oil level still hasn't dropped and there are NO oil drops on the garage floor so maybe I'll luck out for a while.
, I'll make sure i"m careful when doing that. I think I'll run a comparison between the chips (gear/rpm/mph) and see if there's a significant difference. I'll also track mpg. FWIW, I probably paid too much--18K--but I figure that gives me 2K to play with, if you subscribe to the 20K figure overall for an 84-86 911
.The car came with all (most?) receipts from the first owner to me (now #4) and it seems the usual work was done: new valve covers, oil lines, Bilstein shocks in the rear, lowered and cornered, CV boots, clutch rebuild, new starter, battery, yada, yada. One thing I didn't see was top end or tranny work and at 105K when I got it, that's something I need to think about. After ~1000 miles, the oil level still hasn't dropped and there are NO oil drops on the garage floor so maybe I'll luck out for a while.
09-24-2007, 05:14 PM
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I forgot to welcome you GoNow so enjoy.
The law of physics would say that you won't notice any difference between the chips when comparing gear/mph/rpm as you are not changing the gearing of the car.
All you'll be abe to measure is power output, torque curve and mileage (consumption).
Cheers,
Phil
The law of physics would say that you won't notice any difference between the chips when comparing gear/mph/rpm as you are not changing the gearing of the car.
All you'll be abe to measure is power output, torque curve and mileage (consumption).
Cheers,
Phil
09-25-2007, 02:13 PM
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My thinking is that I'll see a difference between stock and aftermarket chips in the same gear/rpm or same gear/mph. For example, in second gear@3000 rpm, I'll see a difference in mph, or in second gear@60 mph, I'll see a difference in rpm. If there is no difference, then I'll check mpg. If again no difference, then the after market chip goes on Ebay!
Anyway, I changed out all lid shocks over the weekend--what a pain! Especially the left side trunk piston. The bottom on that side doesn't offer much room and I lost a clip to the bowels of the trunk. Luckily, due to reading on this forum, I had ordered spares and it was no problem.
As promised here are a couple of pix including the exhaust pipe that was included with the car. I assume it replaces the Cat. I also think the car has been lowered a bit too much, but I'll have to check that when I take it in to the Porsche shop for servicing.
Anyway, I changed out all lid shocks over the weekend--what a pain! Especially the left side trunk piston. The bottom on that side doesn't offer much room and I lost a clip to the bowels of the trunk. Luckily, due to reading on this forum, I had ordered spares and it was no problem.
As promised here are a couple of pix including the exhaust pipe that was included with the car. I assume it replaces the Cat. I also think the car has been lowered a bit too much, but I'll have to check that when I take it in to the Porsche shop for servicing.
10-02-2007, 10:43 AM
#28
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Thanks for the warm welcome and good info--I'll post some pix this weekend.
Before I went back down the Porsche road I read Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story" cover-to-cover three times and constantly refer to it--how can so much vital information be packed into such a thin book? His knowledge got me up to speed in a really short time. For the time I've been reading the posts here, I feel the same way about this forum! I hope I can contribute in time and not just ask questions.
My inclination right now is to not do any mods until I really know what I'm doing and have plowed through Wayne Dempsey's "101 Projects for Your Porsche 911". So with the mods on hold I guess I pass putting on the Cat bypass for now.
Referring to Oshin11's comment, I'm wondering what kind and extent of damage an aftermarket chip can cause over time. It sounds like putting the stock chip back in might be best.
Before I went back down the Porsche road I read Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story" cover-to-cover three times and constantly refer to it--how can so much vital information be packed into such a thin book? His knowledge got me up to speed in a really short time. For the time I've been reading the posts here, I feel the same way about this forum! I hope I can contribute in time and not just ask questions.
My inclination right now is to not do any mods until I really know what I'm doing and have plowed through Wayne Dempsey's "101 Projects for Your Porsche 911". So with the mods on hold I guess I pass putting on the Cat bypass for now.
Referring to Oshin11's comment, I'm wondering what kind and extent of damage an aftermarket chip can cause over time. It sounds like putting the stock chip back in might be best.
10-04-2007, 11:37 PM
#30
You can get H4 inserts for your stock headlamp rings. They simply just drop in to where the sealed beam headlights go now. About $40 per unit, sometimes less if you catch a good sale from one of the typical Porsche part vendors.
You get much better light output and don't have to change the car from stock.
I kinda like the 'old school' headlights from the pre '87 cars...
Just a thought. Enjoy that new car!
Jay
84 3.2, 90 964
You get much better light output and don't have to change the car from stock.
I kinda like the 'old school' headlights from the pre '87 cars...
Just a thought. Enjoy that new car!
Jay
84 3.2, 90 964