please post stories of reliable 2.7L engines after upgrades.
08-25-2007, 07:13 PM
#16
RL Technical Advisor
Absolutely disagree. The better majority of especially first time folks who buy these cars do so in part for the relatively low entry fee and generally without a sincere appreciation for costs associated with the very probable expense it getting the car right. How does a repairer present a $10K+ case repair and rebuild on this $8500 acquisition? especially given that this relatively anemic power plant could alternatively be replaced with a used 3.0L or 3.2L transplant both quicker and less costly and afford a more reliable end result and leave the guy enough $$ to perhaps fix the leaky shocks, worn bushings, brake repairs, etc, etc, which likely loom as well. If understood from the repairer's perspective and considerable more experience with these situations, one could easily appreciate how the mechanic, who was shaking his head at the 100th iteration of this event, might have the above stated response.
Over the past 30+ years, I've seen the entire spectrum beginning with a car ought to be parted out all the way to a splendid example thats worth rebuilding/repowering as desired. Personally, I've endeavored to be honest AND objective while illustrating all the options to the owner to choose, based on performance, longevity, as well as budget, without personal bias as that has no place in keeping the customer's best interests at heart.
This is not to say that a shop or mechanic shouldn't offer advice, but it must be kept in context so that the owner gets the best possible information on which to base a sound decision.
One makes a case for many different engine scenarios depending on what each individual wishes the car to do.
08-26-2007, 08:08 PM
#17
Drifting
Same here. Had my 2.7 for over a year without incident. God knows how many km it had on it
+1!
+1!
08-27-2007, 07:30 AM
#18
Have you had your car up un a lift ? PPI can also stand for Post Purchase Inspection. I bought my 81 from a trusted PCA member after a five min. drive. I still put it up on a lift for peace of mind.
BTW, if you check the timing chain covers, and see a metal pipe running down to the center of the covers, then you have the tensioner upgrade. If you have that, you probably have a fully upgraded engine.
The thing is, people buy these cars for emotional reasons, without a lot of research or forethought. Then they get real concerned about things they hear after the fact, and wind up doing all sorts of things that maybe they should or should'nt do, spending a lot of money for questionable results. They get afraid to drive them, but want to use them. Unless you have a HUGE puddle sitting under your car every time you park it, I would say it is OK to drive it, and enjoy it. Warm it up. Don't beat on it. If you can jack it up yourself, and have moderate mechanical abilities, you can pull the lower valve covers and check the lower studs . If not, you can pay someone to do it for you. Then you will know.
What man can build, a man can fix, So relax. As long as you don't hurt the car, you will probably be able to sell it for what you paid for it, if you decide it's not a keeper. In the meantime, it is a car you bought because of your dreams. Don't do anything rash, and don't panic. The reason I don't care for your mechanic is simply that he had no regard for your feelings, and I'm not even sure he bothered to check your car out before slamming you with a worst case scenario.
A doctor once told my wife she had cancer and she was going to die. He was totally wrong BTW. In your case, you ain't gonna die. Firm up and get the facts. We'll support you.
BTW, if you check the timing chain covers, and see a metal pipe running down to the center of the covers, then you have the tensioner upgrade. If you have that, you probably have a fully upgraded engine.
The thing is, people buy these cars for emotional reasons, without a lot of research or forethought. Then they get real concerned about things they hear after the fact, and wind up doing all sorts of things that maybe they should or should'nt do, spending a lot of money for questionable results. They get afraid to drive them, but want to use them. Unless you have a HUGE puddle sitting under your car every time you park it, I would say it is OK to drive it, and enjoy it. Warm it up. Don't beat on it. If you can jack it up yourself, and have moderate mechanical abilities, you can pull the lower valve covers and check the lower studs . If not, you can pay someone to do it for you. Then you will know.
What man can build, a man can fix, So relax. As long as you don't hurt the car, you will probably be able to sell it for what you paid for it, if you decide it's not a keeper. In the meantime, it is a car you bought because of your dreams. Don't do anything rash, and don't panic. The reason I don't care for your mechanic is simply that he had no regard for your feelings, and I'm not even sure he bothered to check your car out before slamming you with a worst case scenario.
A doctor once told my wife she had cancer and she was going to die. He was totally wrong BTW. In your case, you ain't gonna die. Firm up and get the facts. We'll support you.
08-27-2007, 10:55 AM
#19
Intermediate
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I want to thank all for all there replies! you guys have been wonderful, and very insightful. yes my car has been updated with all the right goodies. tensioners and 70 911s exhaust etc. thanks for the words of encouragement. They have help alot. I find myself glued to this forum learning daily about these wonderful cars. It's nice to have such a resource available. Thanks again Guys!!!
It is better to give than to receive, I hope some day I will be knowledgable to give back.
It is better to give than to receive, I hope some day I will be knowledgable to give back.
08-28-2007, 01:29 PM
#21
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I don't want to get real off subject but my general question is (besides obvious rod through case, etc.) when can a 2.7 be considered shot? If someone..this is not me...has enough money, couldn't a 2.7 be rebuilt and rebuilt until the tolerances of the case become so great that they exceed the new bearing's tolerances, etc.
08-28-2007, 01:55 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
One of the problems encountered frequently with a 2.7 case is the line bore. That is, when the bare case halves are cleaned properly, and bolted together, you can sight down the bore where the crankshaft rides. Special measuring tools are used to decide if that bore (basically the eight main bearing surfaces) is within spec, or if the case must be align-bored. That job requires a very special reamer, and the case can be cut oversize, in order to restore the roundness of each bearing position, as well as their relationship to the others. Bearings made for this operation used to be plentiful, but today can be hard to find, and they're expensive. If this repair is needed, and on mag cases it almost always is, be absolutely sure that your machine shop can do the job properly, and that you have bearings in hand for when the job has been done. Case savers, on the other hand, are a normal repair, but, if the case has poorly installed TimeSerts or the like, the case usually cannot be repaired again and is a throw-away. Virgin engines can usually be repaired better than new, but all bets are off if the engine's been apart once or twice already.
08-28-2007, 02:40 PM
#23
RL Technical Advisor
I don't want to get real off subject but my general question is (besides obvious rod through case, etc.) when can a 2.7 be considered shot? If someone..this is not me...has enough money, couldn't a 2.7 be rebuilt and rebuilt until the tolerances of the case become so great that they exceed the new bearing's tolerances, etc.
When the main bearing bores become worn or the case exhibits sufficient distortion to require line boring, we have the parting surfaces of each case half machined flat again and the main bores machined back to standard size. This is now common practice due to the unavailability of oversize bearings and their stupendous price (over $ 1200) when you could get them.
As long as a mag case doesn't have any cracks, these can be refurbished for a very long time. As noted previously, the ultimate lifespan of these mag cases is dependent on strict temperature managemen, operating RPM, and VERY close attention to balancing all the rotating components.
Last edited by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems; 08-28-2007 at 04:50 PM.
08-28-2007, 04:59 PM
#25
I'll just add that Bruca Anderson once described Mg as "congealed butter."
If you want the ultimate in light wt., or a period correct motor the 2.7 Mg case is your menu choice. Enjoy the cooking.
If you want the ultimate in light wt., or a period correct motor the 2.7 Mg case is your menu choice. Enjoy the cooking.
08-28-2007, 05:39 PM
#26
A positive story: for 30K miles, my folks had a very reliable 1974 2.7S. Then it blew up. So it was rebuilt. After another 25K miles it was sold. When not broken, it was fantastic! Of note, after the rebuild, it was not put back to stock.. but still kept as a 2.7 Good times
