When did the oversteer thing REALLY get fixed?
Still plays with cars.
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From: Montreal
Gross oversteer was dialed out with the introduction of the 964 series in 1989. It has been further tamed with each new series since then.
With a 993 or later car, the 911 is not what I would call tail happy. Note than in any car lifting abruptly off the gas when at or very near the limit of adhesion will cause the rear end to step out and promote a spin. This will happen in a Boxster, a 944, a Corvette or a BMW. Front wheel drive cars can be the worst in the hands of an inexperienced driver. They understeer so the untrained driver dials in more steering lock ..seeing that he is still running out of road he panics and lifts off suddenly. The weight transfers to the front and the car spins, ending up on the inside of the turn.
The modern 911 permits the driver to lift mid corner as long as you ease off the gas gradually. Side step the gas pedal and the 911 will react the same as a corvette - the back end will lose traction.
Regards,
With a 993 or later car, the 911 is not what I would call tail happy. Note than in any car lifting abruptly off the gas when at or very near the limit of adhesion will cause the rear end to step out and promote a spin. This will happen in a Boxster, a 944, a Corvette or a BMW. Front wheel drive cars can be the worst in the hands of an inexperienced driver. They understeer so the untrained driver dials in more steering lock ..seeing that he is still running out of road he panics and lifts off suddenly. The weight transfers to the front and the car spins, ending up on the inside of the turn.
The modern 911 permits the driver to lift mid corner as long as you ease off the gas gradually. Side step the gas pedal and the 911 will react the same as a corvette - the back end will lose traction.
Regards,
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
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The worst trailing throttle oversteer experience I ever had was NOT in any of my 911's (from a '68 L SWB right thru my '83 SC), but in a terribly underpowered Triumph TR7 that a friend loaned me one day when my 911 was in the shop...
I went into a sharp "S" curve, at my usual 911 pace, and realized the "7" wasn't going to make it...
Lifted too quickly and the rear end came around in a heartbeat.
Luckily, I was able to catch it and only wound up sliding thru the first curve sideways, but it was a good thing a semi wasn't coming the other way, or we wouldn't be having this conversation!
So...back to "Get to know your car"...even the most docile will bite you if you don't know them well, and assume they can do things they can't!!!
No, I did not share the experience with my friend! Greg, if you read this, I hope the tires were not too flat spotted!!!
I went into a sharp "S" curve, at my usual 911 pace, and realized the "7" wasn't going to make it...
Lifted too quickly and the rear end came around in a heartbeat.
Luckily, I was able to catch it and only wound up sliding thru the first curve sideways, but it was a good thing a semi wasn't coming the other way, or we wouldn't be having this conversation!
So...back to "Get to know your car"...even the most docile will bite you if you don't know them well, and assume they can do things they can't!!!
No, I did not share the experience with my friend! Greg, if you read this, I hope the tires were not too flat spotted!!!
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by 1986951
The worst trailing throttle oversteer experience I ever had was NOT in any of my 911's ...
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by JackOlsen
Oversteer is why the 911 is faster than other cars. You just need to know how to drive it.
I do know that braking in this car is very good due to the increased weight on the rear wheels.
I think that the late apex route is favored by these cars and is sometimes the fastest way around the track.
Any other not-so-obvious reasons?
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Los Angeles
Weight over the power wheels means a 911 can plant and accelerate faster out of a corner than a front-engine car. Under hard braking, a rear-engine car throws weight forward, but maintains better balance because all the weight isn't suddenly sitting on the front wheels, as would be the case with a front-engine car. In mid-speed corners, a good driver can use the rear weight bias of a 911 to rotate (and plant) the car in a way that front-engine cars can't do as well. Less weight on the front wheels also means that a 911 has a steering agility all its own.
The 911 also has a lot of low speed push. And if you lift in a panic situation at speed, your rear end is likely to come around.
All that said, the difference in how a car performs relative to its engine placement tends to be ridiculously overemphasized in discussions like this. You can put the engine anywhere and still make a fast car. You can put the engine anywhere and still end up with a car with problems like snap oversteer.
The biggest factor in how a car handles is always going to be suspension set-up, in my opinion.
The 911 also has a lot of low speed push. And if you lift in a panic situation at speed, your rear end is likely to come around.
All that said, the difference in how a car performs relative to its engine placement tends to be ridiculously overemphasized in discussions like this. You can put the engine anywhere and still make a fast car. You can put the engine anywhere and still end up with a car with problems like snap oversteer.
The biggest factor in how a car handles is always going to be suspension set-up, in my opinion.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
I agree with the suspension and tires comment . I think it is even a bigger factor than " which 911" . Personally I do not have aggresive cambers and alignments set up because I do not drive my car at the track and would like to preserve tire wear overall. On the way home we have a roundabout of which I have to negotiate about 300 of the 360 degrees. it is the only are I " push " my car. No matter what or how fast i come in the tail does not want to come out. As stated if anything the nose pushes out as I negotiate the roundabout and I have to dial in more steering, giving her more gas will push the nose out further.
I am sure if i was to change the suspension set up I could go in much faster and the nose would not push out as I dial in more steering , but the effect would be the back end wanting to come around. That has nothing to do with " which model ' and more to do with how do you want to drive it ...
ice
I am sure if i was to change the suspension set up I could go in much faster and the nose would not push out as I dial in more steering , but the effect would be the back end wanting to come around. That has nothing to do with " which model ' and more to do with how do you want to drive it ...
ice
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Arapahoe County, Colorado, USA
The suspension-tire combination over the years is the difference. As the tire technology changed, so did the suspension technology in concert. You can’t bolt a set of ’07 997 GT3RS tires on a ’73 911RS and expect anything remotely the same performance.
If you want the latest handling technology, buy a 993 and later.
If want an early 911, buy a ’69 (LWB) and later 911 and modify its handling to suit your taste.
A third choice is to buy a 993 and re-body as a long-hood.
The best advice above is to learn how to drive whatever 911 you have. One of the most important things one can learn attending DE events is what your car WON’T do. Every car has limits and woe be it if you exceed that.
Best,
Grady
If you want the latest handling technology, buy a 993 and later.
If want an early 911, buy a ’69 (LWB) and later 911 and modify its handling to suit your taste.
A third choice is to buy a 993 and re-body as a long-hood.
The best advice above is to learn how to drive whatever 911 you have. One of the most important things one can learn attending DE events is what your car WON’T do. Every car has limits and woe be it if you exceed that.
Best,
Grady
RL Technical Advisor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,870
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From: Portland Oregon
IMHO, gross oversteer was tamed with the introduction of the 993's 5-link rear suspension that finally controlled toe-out on trailing throttle. 
Previous models all had various types of semi-trailing arm rear suspensions that permitted (in varying degrees) toe-out when one lifts off the gas. Thats the biggest factor in making a 911 want to rotate, depending on speed of course.......
Previous models all had various types of semi-trailing arm rear suspensions that permitted (in varying degrees) toe-out when one lifts off the gas. Thats the biggest factor in making a 911 want to rotate, depending on speed of course.......
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: a slippery slope...
I too was fearful of the oversteer. I never experienced it on the street. I drove the car 3 or 4 years and never found it. About 3 years ago I started tracking the car. A few times I had felt it a little but mostly I felt understeer, especially in slower corners.
I finally found it last year at Roebling Rd a track here in Ga. I had an instructor ride with me for the first day. On the second morning my instructor said go out and have fun. Well my instructor was a pretty big guy. Probably around 250 lbs.
When I went out without him the car felt a little more nimble. So here I go into a righthander and I felt I was a little too hot. I lifted the throttle a touch and suddenly I feel the car start to rotate.
So I stepped on the throttle and it just pulled right through the corner. The amazing thing is I had barely turned the wheel yet the car turned.
That was the moment I realized what oversteer in a 911 is about.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
You probably will never experience this feeling on the street. That is a good thing. It isn't something meant for the street. The point is that you need to induce the car to do it unless the car is not aligned properly.
So don't be scared away. You will not regret driving these cars.
I finally found it last year at Roebling Rd a track here in Ga. I had an instructor ride with me for the first day. On the second morning my instructor said go out and have fun. Well my instructor was a pretty big guy. Probably around 250 lbs.
When I went out without him the car felt a little more nimble. So here I go into a righthander and I felt I was a little too hot. I lifted the throttle a touch and suddenly I feel the car start to rotate.
So I stepped on the throttle and it just pulled right through the corner. The amazing thing is I had barely turned the wheel yet the car turned.
That was the moment I realized what oversteer in a 911 is about.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
You probably will never experience this feeling on the street. That is a good thing. It isn't something meant for the street. The point is that you need to induce the car to do it unless the car is not aligned properly.
So don't be scared away. You will not regret driving these cars.
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I spent time, energy, and money to dial IN some oversteer --actually, to tune out the understeer, but you know what I mean 
in both my 993 and my SC Trackmeister.
They are a joy to drive fast, but 911s are will punish the uninitiated. These are great cars, but let's face it: a 911's initial learning curve is steeper than most other cars. But once initiated in a safe DE env't, it becomes far easier to to control and enjoy! Don't get sucked in by the death-oversteer hype, but DO respect it's handling traits, or one suffers for it.
Edward
in both my 993 and my SC Trackmeister. They are a joy to drive fast, but 911s are will punish the uninitiated. These are great cars, but let's face it: a 911's initial learning curve is steeper than most other cars. But once initiated in a safe DE env't, it becomes far easier to to control and enjoy! Don't get sucked in by the death-oversteer hype, but DO respect it's handling traits, or one suffers for it.
Edward
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From: So.CA
I spent time, energy, and money to dial IN some oversteer --actually, to tune out the understeer, but you know what I mean in both my 993 and my SC Trackmeister.
They are a joy to drive fast, but 911s are will punish the uninitiated. These are great cars, but let's face it: a 911's initial learning curve is steeper than most other cars. But once initiated in a safe DE env't, it becomes far easier to to control and enjoy! Don't get sucked in by the death-oversteer hype, but DO respect it's handling traits, or one can suffer for it.
Edward
in both my 993 and my SC Trackmeister. They are a joy to drive fast, but 911s are will punish the uninitiated. These are great cars, but let's face it: a 911's initial learning curve is steeper than most other cars. But once initiated in a safe DE env't, it becomes far easier to to control and enjoy! Don't get sucked in by the death-oversteer hype, but DO respect it's handling traits, or one can suffer for it.
Edward
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by jester911
I too was fearful of the oversteer. I never experienced it on the street. I drove the car 3 or 4 years and never found it. About 3 years ago I started tracking the car. A few times I had felt it a little but mostly I felt understeer, especially in slower corners.
I finally found it last year at Roebling Rd a track here in Ga. I had an instructor ride with me for the first day. On the second morning my instructor said go out and have fun. Well my instructor was a pretty big guy. Probably around 250 lbs.
When I went out without him the car felt a little more nimble. So here I go into a righthander and I felt I was a little too hot. I lifted the throttle a touch and suddenly I feel the car start to rotate.
So I stepped on the throttle and it just pulled right through the corner. The amazing thing is I had barely turned the wheel yet the car turned.
That was the moment I realized what oversteer in a 911 is about.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
You probably will never experience this feeling on the street. That is a good thing. It isn't something meant for the street. The point is that you need to induce the car to do it unless the car is not aligned properly.
So don't be scared away. You will not regret driving these cars.
I finally found it last year at Roebling Rd a track here in Ga. I had an instructor ride with me for the first day. On the second morning my instructor said go out and have fun. Well my instructor was a pretty big guy. Probably around 250 lbs.
When I went out without him the car felt a little more nimble. So here I go into a righthander and I felt I was a little too hot. I lifted the throttle a touch and suddenly I feel the car start to rotate.
So I stepped on the throttle and it just pulled right through the corner. The amazing thing is I had barely turned the wheel yet the car turned.
That was the moment I realized what oversteer in a 911 is about.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
You probably will never experience this feeling on the street. That is a good thing. It isn't something meant for the street. The point is that you need to induce the car to do it unless the car is not aligned properly.
So don't be scared away. You will not regret driving these cars.
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From: La Jolla, CA
Originally Posted by jester911
That was the moment I realized what oversteer in a 911 is about.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
It is a positive thing not a negative.
In modern geek-speak:
"911 oversteer--it's not a bug, it's a feature!"
Get on a skidpad with an instructor and learn to throttle steer. It's an eye-opener.
TT