danoberer

I am thinking about buying a 2003 M5 as a daily driver. Does anyone have any experience with these as far as reliability, trouble spots, etc? Thanks!

GothingNC

I have not heard of any significant problems with them as long as they are maintained properly.

Try this forum

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/

John

Graufuchs

Supposedly very reliable as far as drivetrain.

UberXY

I bought a new M5 in 2000 and use it as my daily driver; 95% of my trips are under 30 miles. I have put 82k miles on it and the only problems I had were very minor. I replaced three cam position sensors at around 50k miles. The rear sway bar brackets break - they are under engineered stamped metal pieces which sell for $5.00 - so I finally replaced them with aftermarket forged metal pieces. I did my first brake job at 77k miles. Tires - $900/set - last me about 26k miles. I am still on the original battery, belts, and all bulbs. Car looks great.

So excluding oil changes and tires, on average I spend about $300/year on repairs. Not bad! My wife's Benz wagon soaks up about $1500 every two months.

I will warn you that a lot of M5 owners drive them way too hard, and in many cases, way too inexpertly. Some guys go thru clutches and brakes every 20k miles. My clutch is great at 82k and my brakes lasted 77k; I have a lot of racing experience, so I tend not to pretend to be Schummacher with my street cars. My goal was to keep the M5 for ten years, and I am sticking to the plan.

Also, the cars have a lot of nuisance OBDC codes, so if you need a reset tool, which are about $150.

Steve
00 M5
84 Carrera
98 E320
02 G500

Droops83

If the M5 in question is nearing 100k miles, budget for a top end rebuild. There are not tons and tons of them with that high of mileage yet, but like many BMWs they like to burn exhaust valves in the 100-120k mile range. BMW seems to have not cut their valve seats well enough from the factory, most of the ones that I've seen that we have done top-end rebuilds on (often originally b/c the head gasket(s) are leaking) I6 or V8, have at least 1 or 2 or more exhaust valves that are burnt up or pretty close to it. The seats are too wide (so they don't exert quite enough pressure) and let the valve sit a bit too far into the combustion chamber, and combustion gases can get in between the valve and seat.

Also, the M5s are known to have secondary air passages clog up, just like 993s (do a search of the 993 board here on Rennlist and on the M5 board). The valve guide material from the factory is too soft and lets carbon build up in the secondary air injection passages, eventually clogging them completely. This is a problem if you live in a state like CA where you have to pass emissions tests that check your OBDII readiness monitors. The clogged post cause a check engine light since the O2 sensors don't see the expected extra rush of air on cold start when the secondary air pump runs. Just clearing the code doesn't help either! Only true fix is to pull the heads and clear out the passages (and put in better valve guides!!!)--BMW has released a factory kit since we last did a top end on an M5 to make this easier (don't need to replace the heads unless of course they are cracked or warped or something).

OK, sorry to scare you there, but other than that the E39 M5 is as awesome car! There really is not a better all around performance/luxury car available. Great bang for the buck these days, but make sure you buy a low mileage one that's been taken care of, or one that's just had the top end done by a reputable shop. Do get a PPI and compression/leakdown tested. Also check the twin breather hoses that run along the front of the engine---these are an easy fix but every M5 I saw at the recent Bimmerfest here in town had gummy hoses that were ready to break and make a big vacuum leak. The maintenance can be a bit expensive, but that is to be expected, it's a BMW M car, not a Honda. Like all BMWs, plastic cooling components can be a problem, various sensors will go bad (MAF, cam position, ect) valve cover gaskets, P/S hoses, etc. Just catch anything like that before it gets bad. Once again I highly recommend these cars despite my warnings above; heed those and hopefully you'll find a nice car!

Oh yeah, if you want 80% of the performance for less money, consider an E39 540i 6 spd. Absolutely awesome cars!

-Chris A.

UberXY

Agreed. You can get a 540i for half the price and it is an awesome performance car.


BTW, I used to race a high dollar, highly prepped '66 Shelby GT350, and I guarantee my stock M5 can do lower lap times.

Steve

GothingNC

Heres a good checklist link for the E39 5 series model.

http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?...d=27&Itemid=55

I'm contemplating getting a BMW as a DD but I'm undecided on getting an E30, E36 or 5 series.

John

danoberer

This is what I love about Rennlist! Thanks so much for the great recs and resources guys!

blake

I don't know danoberer. It takes guts to come on the Rennlist 911 forum and post an "off topic" question about a sedan... Boy - you must be crazy!

Just kidding danster- best of luck with the 997S Cabrio choice versus the M5. You know my opinion - polar silver is the only color for a P-Cab! And if you get the M5, you will still be thinking about the 997S (and not the other way around).

-Blake

Mike Murphy

well, good, then I won't feel bad when I sell the Porsche to buy an e46 M3

UberXY

A few years after I bought the M5, I bought a nice 7k mile 99 996 GT3 clone. It was a very nice car, problem free. But I never really got attached to it, and drove the M5 about 95% of the time. Sold the 996 without any real regrets.

And when I looked at a real GT3 at the local BMW/Porsche dealership, thinking I would trade the M5 in on it, the service writer took me aside and said I would be making a big mistake. Took his advice.

Steve
00 M5
02 G500
84 Carrera Targa
64 356C

JES1680

Gotta agree with Droops. M5s are awsome, but the 540i 6spd is an incredible machine for less money. I still miss mine.

blake

I have owned a 2002 325CiC (new) and a 2005 X3 (new). Cost of ownership on both cars was extremely low... I was very pleased with the reliability.

Did BMW have any reliability problems with the 5 series or M5? I had not heard anything to that effect...

Thanks,
-B

Mike Murphy

well, the '02 325ci is said to be the best year of those E46 non-M cars. My fiancee has one also. No issues to date, except for a minor replacement part for $40. Warranty covered it.

Droops83

Reread my post on the previous page . . . they are inherently pretty reliable cars and don't tend to have catastrophic failures, but most BMWs seem to have the same problems down the road. The cooling system is probably the single biggest issue, since so many plastic components are used: plastic end tanks on the radiator, plastic expansion tanks, plastic thermostat housings on the M54 6 cyl, plastic quick-connect ends for the radiator hoses on later models, and the worst idea, plastic water pump impellers on some of the early 90s cars that are guaranteed to fail! Any and all of these can corrode and weaken and leak, usually toward the 60k mile mark, and of course cause big problems if ignored, but usually the constant "low coolant" warning on the gauge cluster clues in most customers. I have even heard of some shops replace the entire cooling system every 60k as maintenance, though this may be a bit extreme. BTW BMW finally wised up and the E60 5 series ('04-up) and E90 3 series ('05 up) have all aluminum radiators.

Other issues tend to be stuff like control arm bushings, rear ball joints on E39s, leaky power steering hoses, valve cover gaskets, and of course electrical stuff/check engine lights, etc since BMWs are relatively complicated cars and tend to have many computers/modules/sensors onboard . . . . oh yeah and the automatic transmission cars, you DO need to change the ATF; "lifetime fill" means the lifetime of the transmission, which is in the 90-100k mile range if you never change the fluid, not of the car. If you change the ATF every 60k, it is kindof expensive but the tranny will last much longer.

However, don't let all this scare you, if you find a well maintained example, and understand that a BMW is a high performance automobile and not a Honda and budget some money for future repairs (and can afford to run one!) and fix anything BEFORE it becomes a big problem, you will be amazed at how competent of a car it is. I still like Porsches best and I work on those mostly, but I like BMWs too, and will definitely have some sort of M car as a family sedan if/when I need one!

--Chris A.