Are racers better drivers?
04-27-2007, 02:24 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
A good track driver doesn't always mean a good street driver. I'm starting to think that a good street driver has to fulfill at least the following requirements:
1.) Safety: no accidents or tickets
2.) Smooth: driving like butter
3.) Efficient: getting to your destination quickly, with the least amount of traffic (you have to know your roads), and don't use too much gas.
4.) Easy on the car: minimize your repairs, maximize your car's lifespan
5.) Minimally-invasive to the other drivers (if you're getting honked at, or your scaring the others on the road, you're not a good driver)
That said, I think information and education is the key. Putting them on the track will probably help
1.) Safety: no accidents or tickets
2.) Smooth: driving like butter
3.) Efficient: getting to your destination quickly, with the least amount of traffic (you have to know your roads), and don't use too much gas.
4.) Easy on the car: minimize your repairs, maximize your car's lifespan
5.) Minimally-invasive to the other drivers (if you're getting honked at, or your scaring the others on the road, you're not a good driver)
That said, I think information and education is the key. Putting them on the track will probably help
04-27-2007, 04:54 PM
#17
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I believe that a track driver does make a better driver on the street, generally. I know from my own experience I did slow down on the street and not drive as aggressively as I did before racing. I still practiced late braking and apexing corners as much as possible, but I was much more in control and not nearly as aggressive as I had been. I guess it was a "save it for the track" attitude I developed after a few races.
I also believe I developed more patience. On-track I learned that it was get by them one at a time. So I began to have some patience and would follow and observe for a lap maybe in order to see where I thought I could press my adversary and take advantage of a perceived weakness in order to make a safe pass. I do that now on the street too. I'm much more patient with a slower driver and will wait until its really safe to pass where as before I would've maybe pushed the issue a little more.
Of course just a better sense of car control is probably the last thing I think that track driving gave me. I now am much better about shifting, using the brakes, and applying power. Now when I hit the unexpected damp spot or oil on the roadway I'm much more confident I can keep the car underneath me and get through the trouble.
Just my $.02.
I also believe I developed more patience. On-track I learned that it was get by them one at a time. So I began to have some patience and would follow and observe for a lap maybe in order to see where I thought I could press my adversary and take advantage of a perceived weakness in order to make a safe pass. I do that now on the street too. I'm much more patient with a slower driver and will wait until its really safe to pass where as before I would've maybe pushed the issue a little more.
Of course just a better sense of car control is probably the last thing I think that track driving gave me. I now am much better about shifting, using the brakes, and applying power. Now when I hit the unexpected damp spot or oil on the roadway I'm much more confident I can keep the car underneath me and get through the trouble.
Just my $.02.
04-27-2007, 07:18 PM
#18
AutoX
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Great thread – thank you.
I started in the spring of 1968 with both Colorado Region SCCA in FV and RMR-PCA with a new 911 coupe. Almost 40 years later I still drive slow and like a scared chicken on the street. I don’t listen to anything other than the car. I’m never first through an intersection. I’m aware of everything around me, particularly at intersections. I drive at about 50% speed of traffic. I try and do something “nice” for another driver every time I drive.
The result no accidents and no tickets. Sorta the racing; “You have to first finish to finish first.” At my lame old age I’m way ahead of my friends killed in traffic accidents.
On track I did OK with FV, BSR (RS-60), AP (904), CP (911), GT2 (914-6) on up through GTU (RSR) and 935K3 in IMSA.
When my son was 10 “we” decided to go competitive kart racing – he the driver and I the tow truck driver. Starting with a gas 5 hp B&S, adding a second kart (9 hp IKF B&S), to shifter karts. When he turned 16 he had 600 green-to-checkered races and SCCA gave him a “W” National License. After a couple of years in Spec Miata and Formula Mazda, college started and I pulled the plug on racing (not testing). He is now a junior and at 21 still no accidents or tickets.
How did this “typical teen” and accomplished racer get there? I think first was by example and discussion. Second may have been long “driver’s ed” – starting at 10 and earlier. The day he turned 15 he had completed classroom and private driver’s ed and got his Learner’s Permit. That gave him a full year only driving with us as passengers, including winter mountain passes in snow & ice. Fear may be another; his HS regularly had mangled cars on display. Another was some of his friends lost their driving and racing privileges because of behavior and other issues.
After graduation he has a race Porsche, tow truck and trailer waiting. He doesn’t have any aspirations to be a pro driver (as some of his friends are – at the cost of their education). If he chooses to be a skilled amateur “gentleman racer,” fine with me.
Sending your kids off driving is , well … difficult. Only the best preparation can make it any easier. Even then, it is their “situation awareness” that can only help protect from the idiots, drunks, incompetents and worse who also drive.
I have written extensively about this on Pelican. Search my name and kart (p. 2 here).
Best,
Grady
I started in the spring of 1968 with both Colorado Region SCCA in FV and RMR-PCA with a new 911 coupe. Almost 40 years later I still drive slow and like a scared chicken on the street. I don’t listen to anything other than the car. I’m never first through an intersection. I’m aware of everything around me, particularly at intersections. I drive at about 50% speed of traffic. I try and do something “nice” for another driver every time I drive.
The result no accidents and no tickets. Sorta the racing; “You have to first finish to finish first.” At my lame old age I’m way ahead of my friends killed in traffic accidents.
On track I did OK with FV, BSR (RS-60), AP (904), CP (911), GT2 (914-6) on up through GTU (RSR) and 935K3 in IMSA.
When my son was 10 “we” decided to go competitive kart racing – he the driver and I the tow truck driver. Starting with a gas 5 hp B&S, adding a second kart (9 hp IKF B&S), to shifter karts. When he turned 16 he had 600 green-to-checkered races and SCCA gave him a “W” National License. After a couple of years in Spec Miata and Formula Mazda, college started and I pulled the plug on racing (not testing). He is now a junior and at 21 still no accidents or tickets.
How did this “typical teen” and accomplished racer get there? I think first was by example and discussion. Second may have been long “driver’s ed” – starting at 10 and earlier. The day he turned 15 he had completed classroom and private driver’s ed and got his Learner’s Permit. That gave him a full year only driving with us as passengers, including winter mountain passes in snow & ice. Fear may be another; his HS regularly had mangled cars on display. Another was some of his friends lost their driving and racing privileges because of behavior and other issues.
After graduation he has a race Porsche, tow truck and trailer waiting. He doesn’t have any aspirations to be a pro driver (as some of his friends are – at the cost of their education). If he chooses to be a skilled amateur “gentleman racer,” fine with me.
Sending your kids off driving is , well … difficult. Only the best preparation can make it any easier. Even then, it is their “situation awareness” that can only help protect from the idiots, drunks, incompetents and worse who also drive.
I have written extensively about this on Pelican. Search my name and kart (p. 2 here).
Best,
Grady
04-28-2007, 11:49 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Although I am still young, (23) I have spent a lot of time autocrossing and participating in SCCA club rally.
I've never been in an accident?!? My one ticket was from 'Violation of basic Speed Law'.
I would like to think that I am better (as in more capable in a bad situation) than the average driver.
I've never been in an accident?!? My one ticket was from 'Violation of basic Speed Law'.
I would like to think that I am better (as in more capable in a bad situation) than the average driver.
05-03-2007, 01:41 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Since we are on the subject of Kids and driving, I thought I'd post this link to a driving education program sponsored by the BMW Foundation (can I say that on this forum).
Street Survival
I have passed this on to a couple of friends with teenage kids. Mine are grown now and I wish something like this was available back when. I haven't gotten any direct feedback yet since the local class is scheduled for later in the year. But, the program looks like what a real teen driver education program should be about. It gets good press in the BMW world. And at $60 it beats the heck out of the $500+ "factory" and "track" sponsored schools.
Anyway just thought I'd share the info for anyone interested.
Andrew
Street Survival
I have passed this on to a couple of friends with teenage kids. Mine are grown now and I wish something like this was available back when. I haven't gotten any direct feedback yet since the local class is scheduled for later in the year. But, the program looks like what a real teen driver education program should be about. It gets good press in the BMW world. And at $60 it beats the heck out of the $500+ "factory" and "track" sponsored schools.
Anyway just thought I'd share the info for anyone interested.
Andrew
05-03-2007, 05:44 PM
#22
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Now I really feel bad. I was that kid everyone worried about. Over all experience has taught me something. You can only do so much. That is to be alert when driving. Meaning no cell phones etc... Watch what you are doing, and driving on the freeway should be treated like the autobahn. Keep right except to pass. For if you live to tell why someone's Porsche/Bugatti/Audi gets lodged in your ***, YOU have to explain to the court of how & why they got there first place.
Also I have learned road rage is something easily cured by not clogging the left lane so everyone can go as fast as they want.
Also I have learned road rage is something easily cured by not clogging the left lane so everyone can go as fast as they want.
Last edited by rentadate; 05-03-2007 at 05:48 PM. Reason: right should be left
05-03-2007, 05:54 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by rentadate
...Keep right except to pass...
In Chicago, for example, most taxi cabs always stay as far left as possible and generally cruise at the speed limit or not much faster. When I asked a particular driver which lane he was taught to stay in, he replied, "the left lane - because all the exits are on the right." Lovely. Driving in Germany was a much better experience and actually felt safer to me.
