pbs911

It's been a while since my UCC course, but I have to agree with JeffG, with on caveat. You included the words "in need of rebuild" which may imply that the motor in its current condition was capable of being rebuilt. Sure items normally associated with a rebuild would include bearings, rings, possibly pistons and cylinders. I would presume that a rebuildable motor includes a case that is a suitable for a rebuild. Is the case beyond repair? If not it is a motor in need of a rebuild. As Jeff pointed out 17 months is too long to make a claim on warranty, but if not, the question from a legal standpoint is, do the words "AS IS" trump the works "in need of rebuilt"?

Cory Jump

Thanks Everyone for your individual insight on my current situation.

Please understand that I am a trusting person and in no way think this person is trying to decieve me . I personally don't want to believe that this person ran it in a car and did the further damage.

My feeling is that (as is ) means as is.
and (no warranty) means no warranty.
and 17 months is way to long of a time period to expect someone to give unusual treatment to a particular situation.



Believe it or not I am not as concerned with the legal aspect of it as the ethical or moral aspect.

Thanks again!


Cory Jump
cory@planet9eleven.com

Todd

[quote]Originally posted by Kevin E Davis:
<strong>If (upon disassembly) he had found a near-perfect engine, was he going to send you a check for another $3K? Have you ever had any other dealings with this customer?</strong><hr></blockquote>

richard glickel.

Cory,

I understand that you don't want or need a legal opinion here.

Aside from the fact that, based upon your description of the transaction, you stand on strong legal footing, I don't see that you've acted in an unethical or immoral way with this customer.

I'd be curious to know the experience level (educational background too) of the customer, but I really don't see that impacting upon the matter.

As I see it, the bottom line is that it's your shot to call. If you feel, knowing what was said or represented by you at the time of the transaction, that a refund is in order then by all means do so. As more than one lister has noted above, there really is no way of knowing what's gone on inside the engine until it's torn down.

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

hitbyastick

But he had 17 months to tear down the engine and fix the knocking noise, then break it because he forgot to put some things where they belong, and then give you the blame for it.

112344

As a lawyer, there are situations where the legal result just doesn't feel right ethically or legally, but this is not one of them! The other lawyers have provided sound legal advice, and it happens to align nicely with what I and the others responding believe to be the reasonable and fair outcome. You made clear at the outset that you were selling the engine "as is". When you consider this along with the lengthy delay prior to your customer raising this issue, you have no legal, ethical or moral obligation to do anything. Only you can decide what, if anything, you want to do voluntarily in the interest of customer relations. If you do nothing, I don't think anyone would blame you.

HJM

Brian911

Think of it this way. If you went to a storge container sale because someone went lame on there rent and you bought a trunk for $50. 17 months later you finally get around to cracking it open hoping to find riches or even just some cool stuff. You find a big heaping rat turd. If you tried to bring this back to the owner he would just laugh and he may even hit you for wasting your time. I know this was crude but that guy baught something "as is". His pride is hurt because he probably bragged to his buddies that he got a screamin deal on an engine and all he hear's now is screaming from his wife. Don't give him jack. He sounds like a paumpus a-hole. Please excuse the lingo.

Brian
1980 911SC <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

A Quiet Boom

My take on this is that he is in fact trying to take advantage of your good nature. I believe he put the motor in a car with the knocking (probably a bearing going bad) and ran it til it puked and now he's intentionally trying to screw you out of the cash. Give him nothing but a polite, "well sir it's been 17 monthes on and engine sold 'as is' if I refund you're money I might as well just give away my whole business" or something to that effect. Being a businessman myself as well as good natured, I find that this type of person comes out of the woodwork figuring they'll screw me out of a few bucks, I've learned my lesson, put everything in writing and stick to your guns.

RANDY P

Agreed.

17 months is a long time to discover this issue. for all you know the problem was rectified and he spun it too hard. Now he wants you to pay the tab...

Unfortunately, "customer service" is a widely abused term - some people believe being called a "customer" is a license to lie cheat and generally abuse the person providing the service. I've been in sales for 17 years, and the only businesses that would honor that request in light of the circumstances are the ones that are dead and bankrupt.

A "customer" is someone who spends money in YOUR establishment, and the rest of the "the customer is always right" adage is really " THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT UNTIL THEY BREAK THE SHOP POLICY IE: AS-IS, NO EXCHANGES"

I'll be willing to bet money that if he collected from you he'll be hi - fiving his buddies and laughing his way to the bank.

Stick to your guns, he expects something for nothing. Call him on it.

rjp

PS if you offer ANY concessions you're opening up to a lot of future nagging and abuse from this guy. Give him a inch, he'll take a mile. If you have to give him something or discount to get him to go away, make him EARN it - he has to bug you HARD and offer something for your consideration. Don't offer anything until you hear his voice go 2 octaves higher - and then offer it, ON THE CONDITION that he agrees to do something for you back. Just a trick to keep the mooches away.

Dennis in SE PA

17 months? End of discussion. If it will save a customer I think offering parts at cost plus 10% and shipping is OK. Otherwise - you can't please all of the people all of the time.

ZAMIRZ

$3,000 for a 930 turbo engine with a knock. What did he expect the knock to be, one to your head that you'd be dumb enough to sell him a perfect motor at that price? And on top of all that, after 17 months he comes crying to you? Forget it, you don't owe him **** on a stick.

later,

amir

dog

DO US A FAVOUR,

TELL THAT GUY KINDLY TO GO JUMP!

AND TO TAKE HIS MOTHER-IN-LAW WITH HIM.

DOGGIE. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Rick Lee

This guy sounds like the type of customer you do not want to keep. Keeping your reputation intact is certainly worth whatever it costs to do so. But keeping a customer like this guy looks like it will be expensive now and later. Tell him to go lease a Boxster.

Jgordon

I guess that's one of the dangers of doing business in America these days -- there's a complete lack of accountability on the part of the American consumer. People do things these days with no thought of the consequences -- there's always someone to blame and sue.

Legally, you're in the clear, from what I can tell.

If you want to be a nice guy, you could go the route of offering him the parts at cost or cost plus 10.

One thing that's important to think about is the possibility that he might start ranting about you on a board such as this. He's a threat to your future business. Whether or not he goes down that road is another story. It might be worth not making your profit on the necessary parts, just to send him away happy. If he convinces one person not to buy an engine, you've lost out on the deal.

I'd just try to talk with him. Figure out what he was expecting, and how that differed from what he got. Make sure he's aware that you're under no obligation (try doing that gently and politely) and ask him what it would take to make him happy. Then go from there.

My thoughts.

jared

TPink

Like you need another opinion here, but...

The buyer certainly has some responsibility here. I would find out what happened in the past 17 months. If the buyer had incredibly unusual circumstances beyond his control and could document that the engine sat untouched and properly stored for the entire time, then I would only supply parts, etc. at cost and feel extremely satisfied with how I treated the customer.

If the engine was not in proper storage, but used, then I would not take any further responsibility for its repair, and the buyer should not expect you to either. If he operated the engine then he cannot warrant to you that he did not do it. You certainly did not try to deceive him up front. You did not diagnose the problem, just decribed the symptom. Your "diagnosis" of "needs a rebuilt" is clear warning of major repair needed. To take that literally is not fair, as we all know that additional work and parts are often needed once an engine is opened up.

If I were in his situation would be upset as well, but at least most of my anger would be at myself for not acting responsibly and in good faith to complete the transaction by investigating the actual condition my purchase in a reasonable time, especially when I received clear warning of a problem with the engine.

My .02, FWIW