Jay H

My 1990 964 is screwed together just as good as my 1984 911. Both cars use exceptional materials and have very high build qualities. Both cars were engineered well, though the 964 had growing pains and others have already answered about those early 964 problems and what age does to these cars.

These boards prove that you can get very long service lives out of the air cooled cars if they are maintained properly.

Hope this helps,

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

Mike Murphy

If it will be your first, then you will not go wrong with the 964. Do you enjoy air conditioning? If so, stick with a 964 or newer. You can't beat the price point of these cars.

ked

I'd remind a friend who was a prospective first-time 911 owner to consider "Bruce Anderson's Dictum" about buying the newest, best one you can afford. That might bring an early, "stripped" 996 into the equation, depending upon how you go about the financial side of the deal.

Mike Murphy

Regarding finances:

In the State of Illinois, if you buy a car that costs under a certain price and is older than a certain year, your sales tax bill is $25. Compare that with a brand-new dealer car and you'll pay over 9%.

Additionally, I pay $250/yr for insurance because my car is a "classic." The 996 was going to be about $1250/yr for the same full coverage.

Porsche911fan

I'm worried if I go for a 964 that I will end up putting lots of money into it to keep it running in proper order. I do expect costs to go up a bit with the 964 but if I keep my mileage around 6k a year I hope to keep them manageable. If I do decide to sell it would be nice to sell it for close to the amount I paid for it. Simply said, I don' want huge maintanance cost AND depreciation cost that I may see with the purchase of a 964. I know that the 3.2's are holding there own very well and in most cases appreciating so it may be a better choice in addition to its mechanical simplicity.

Jay H

Any 911 can cost a boat load of money to keep running in proper order and it depends on how **** you are with your cars. It's not limited to a 964. Yes, 964's are more complex, but buy an older car in average condition and you'll spend tons...

For example, I bought my '84 in good mechanical condition (it came with a complete 15k tune up, new alt, shocks, struts, tires, Fuchs, brakes, all fresh fluids and a slew of new relays all done about 200 miles before I bought it). Right after I got it, I still dropped $2500 for a new clutch and new CV boots, $450 in misc items that needed repair like turn signal switch, starter and a new fresh air blower. I then had to drop another $700 fixing a hard oil line and a fresh external oil thermostat. Add in some paint work that the car needed and I put in $4500 over what I initially paid for an already very mechanically sound car. It's now nearly perfect mechanically, but there could be $2500 in A/C work looming too. I could spend $2000 on interior work as well to make it more show car like, but I'm holding off. I like my cars maintained to a high level and everything must work. No excuses. Again, this is all for a "more simple" 3.2 Carrera that had a ton of work already done by the prior (2nd) owner. Plus the first owner maintained it very well and the car came with full records so I knew exactly what I was getting.

So, 964's aren't the only cars that require money to make right.

I'm gonna be blunt: If you can't swing the $2500 or so for a clutch repair or the $1500 for the misc repairs that come up (not might come up, WILL come up), then an older Porsche is not for you. You have to have a repair budget and disposable income to run these things.

Jay

Edward

No one has a crystal ball, so I would ignore future resale value as a criterion. Not to mention that 964s are pretty cheap now, and to see them drop even further would be hard to imagine. That said, any 911 of ANY vintage that develops a serious engine problem is looking at over 10K in engine rebuild costs. They key is to find one with good records and a healthy PPI ...true for any 911 iteration you choose.

A 964 that is well sorted will not cost you more than any other 911 to keep up. And the primary reason the 3.2s values are so good is that they represent an "end-of-an-era" mystique about them. They are inherently no more reliable or desireable. Moreover, from a performance standpoint, the 964 will, um, do a stock 3.2 some damage

And as I'm sure you could figure out, "desirability" is a market whim. The pre-74 "longhoods," for example, were once plentiful and cheap; now look!!

The bottom line is you should look at which 911 "model" is the one that best fits your desires, then find the absolute best one within that model range. ...IMHO, of course. Best of luck to you, and let us know what you end up choosing

Edward

Jay H

I'm sorry to be beating this post over and over... However, maybe this will help you, Porsche911fan, make an educated decision.

I could get about 85% to 90% back of what I initially spent on my 964 AND all the repairs and updates I've done to it (excluding fuel and insurance). I've been very **** with that car and have replaced anything that was worn. It's now a winning concours car. So, that's a pretty good return on a car that I bought almost 7 years ago.

Good 911's just can't drop too much more in value. They are holding pretty steady and some stuff is creaping up, even lowly 964s.

pu911rsr

Real 964's don't have none of this sissy stuff like A/C, power steering, power windows etc. You get enough weight out of them and they feel like a real Porsche.
Phil

Mike Murphy

You should expect to pay $1000-$2000 a year in maintenance costs. I highly doubt that you'll see anything higher than that regardless of if you choose an SC, 3.2, 964 or 993 for that matter.

r911

Get a 964 - start throwing out the luxo-crap that makes it so heavy. When you get it stripped to the bare shell it will be within 40 lbs. of an early unit body but much stiffer. You can then build it back up and make it as racy as you want.

You can stop anywhere along the journey that seems sufficiently light to you.

RacingBeat

i went thru this very same thing back and forth in my mind for a long time before taking the plunge, when i did....

myself and a friend of mine both became 1st time p owners within a year of each other.......he with a 964 cab and me with my 3.2 targa. knock on wood i've had no problems beyond maintenance for almost 18 months, in the same time frame he was in over $5,000 in repairs before eventually selling. btw, our purpose for buying was the same, limited fun street use with a plan to xcross or do some driving events thru pca whenever we could get around to it.

you can read many testimonials advocating one over the other, personally i've think you've gotter better odds with the 3.2 in terms of an overall good experience. but......research before buying, and then find the best conditioned example you can, for the reason you need it

N51

When looking for a newer 911, *superior* has to be defined, not by me, not by this forum, but you.

After nearly two and a half years, I found the best 911 for me. No sunroof, no powersteering, less sound insolation. A perfect platform for modifications. For many on the 964 forum, I'm sure they believe I've paid too much for an RSA. For their desires, they're quite right.

Do you see my point? I don't consider my RSA superior to any other 911. But it is perfect for me.

Noah

BrokenE

It's my impression from reading Excellence that the a late 88-89 (with the G50) 3.2 is more reliable than a 964. Just read the buyers summary for each. However, even if it is true, it's not a significant differance. The more relevant thing to focus on is what type of maintenance care has the car recieved. Proper maintenance is of the utmost importance, regardless of model, and probably more true for air cooled engines vs. liquid cooled.

Also, dude, don't rack your brain so much. Don't think that your first porsche will be your last and only. You really can't go wrong with either model. Just do your best to determine the maintenance history and mechanical condition of the car.

Having that aspect of purchasing your next car, now focus on the emotinal. My advise would be to drive a few of each model and buy the one that pulls on your heart string more. If you can't decide and you're still hung up on the money thing, buy the cheaper of the two, and save some money for any uh-oh's that your PPI won't catch. If nothing hapens with in the first 18 months, as with Racing Beat, you can always spend the money on upgrades, or regular maintenance items like tires. If for some reason your not happy with the car you bought, then remember, what ever you buy, you should be able to sell for relatively the same price, if you did your all your homework.

Mike Murphy

+1. I didn't buy my car from a dealer, but at Midwest Performance Cars in Chicago, Tom said that he allows for trades from time to time if you buy the car from him. So I'm just saying that trading is definitely an option, since most 3.2s and 964 are in a similar price point. Make sure you bring this up to the dealer if you buy from a dealer. Trading generally means that you pay no sales taxes.