2thmvr

I would like to purchase or build an RS clone for weekend driving and occasional autocrossing or tracking. I would like good handling and brakes and performance in the range of my previous 993. Where do I start?

Chassis - should I go with a 70-73 or newer late 70's galvinized and set up for power assisted brakes
Engine - old T engine rebuilt or 2.7 or newer 3.0 or 3.2 - horsepower/torque needs - driveability and reliability - how would it handle with a newer heavier engine - exhaust(I like it loud)
Transmission - 901 or 915? what year?
Brakes - ?
Suspension?? - I would like good handling, but not get beat up on longer drives
Wheels - 15" or 16" or
Seats, rollbar - any recommendations

I have budgeted about $30,000.
Any and all recommendations and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

GrantG

My first advice would be to buy a clone that is already built - you will save ALOT of money this way. $30k will buy a nice clone, but it will not build a nice clone (unless you'll do all the labor yourself).

My personal strong preference is to go with a light car that uses the early MFI motor (2.7 or 2.8L preferably). These have a character totally beyond what you get in a newer motor (high rev shreik is spine-tingling at 7,300 rpm and above). Drive a few nice ones before making up your mind...

Christien

70-73 chassis/body would be lighter, post 76 is galvanised, so your trade off is more care + absolutely no salt winter driving vs. added weight. And of course the different body styles.
Engine: personally I'd gor for a 3.2. The 2.4 engine is good and fun, but why not pack the extra punch? You'll notice a HUGE difference between your old 993 3.6 and the 2.4.
Transmission: 915, definitely
Brakes: I don't know if you can add a brake booster to the older cars. I've thought about adding one to my 72 because the brakes aren't great, esp. on the track, but I haven't looked that far into it yet.
Suspension: I just installed Bilstein sport all around in my 72. It's awesome on the track, but it's really too stiff for the street. A popular combination is sports in the rear and HDs in the front - I wish I'd done that.

I think with a $30K budget you'll have your pick of pretty much anything you want out there, plus lots left over for upgrades. Maybe find a nice 72 or 73 911T with original motor and swap in a rebuilt 3.2? You'll still probably have $10K left over, or close.

r911

Disagree -- The 915 is stronger; the 1970-71 trans has the superior road-racing shift pattern and weighs less. You'll need to adapt it like I did and baby it in 1st. It should get a few upgrades too.

re the body - the later bodies are apparently stiffer too (recent Pelican thread I started) - but you'll need to adapt it to look like a clone of the early cars.

It's cheaper to buy than to build, so print out Grant's admonition and carry it around with you to look at every time you start thinking about your project.

BUT, in general, I might try to find a real ratty looking Carrera -- a pre-G50 one. The motor is only much heavier if you keep the stock intake and exhaust. Do you have smog regs where you live? With that and $30k you can have a lot of fun. It already has a motor with good head flow, the right brakes, stiffness, rust-roofing and light Al parts. Just start stripping out all the luxo-boat crap and throw it away or put it on eBay.

Grant has one of the ultimate clones. Also find Jack Olson's posts on Pelican and read them.

Are you after looks or light wt.?? Grant's is very light; Jack's is not but has numerous handling tricks added to it.

Download these two files I created and review the information carefully. It's almost all been done before. If it hasn't been done before, then you are way out beyond the $30k limit.

http://www.penaltykicker.com/911/data/

JackOlsen

With 30K I would look for an already-finished 72-73 with a 3.2 in it. When these are done right (which isn't usually the case, unfortunately), it's a pretty fantastic bang-for-the-buck combo. If you live in a place where they salt roads, then a galvanized tub might make more sense. If pre-74 prices keep getting higher, there also might be a great argument for backdating a later car. But also check your local smog legislation. In California, only 1975 and older cars are exempt. If you keep the motor and exhaust stock on a backdated Carrera or 964, then smog won't be an issue. But all that stuff is heavy.

If you build up a low displacement motor, then most of your budget is going to go out the door. I've driven dozens of 911's, and the reliability of the 3.2's and 3.6's is hard to beat if you're driving the car on the street.

You'll save enormous amounts of money if you get a car with a suspension and brakes that have already been done. The suspension in particular is what sets the quick track/autocross cars apart from the slow ones. You should also install a transaxle cooler if you track your car. People bemoan the short life of 915 transaxles -- one big part of that is no one sees how hot their transaxles are getting during track use. It's not an issue for autocross or street driving.

earlyapex

I second Gran's advice. Your budget will not be enough to build you a nice RS clone. You best bet is to buy one that has already been done.

RS Ben

I concur with the others that buying a clone is going to be less expensive than building one. I built my RS from a 72, it has a 3.2 engine, 930 brakes, coilover suspension..etc, etc and have alot more than $30k into mine and did most of the work myself. I like the 3.2 engine, but the 2.7 or 2.8 MFI have faster throttle responce and great sound. The pre 73 cars are much lighter and lighter is better IMHO, but you have to put it in the garage when the salt trucks come out. Good Luck!

Daniel Dudley

There is a book called ''The Gold Plated Porsche''. You might enjoy reading it.

This may sound crass, but the cheapest RS clone you can make is an SC with a ducktail and decals. I don't know what it would take to convert the bumpers, but you could work it in stages. At least you have the rear flares, and a really nice platform and engine.

GrantG

You can't just change the bumpers - you need to change the entire front fenders, hood, etc. And the SC motor is not really the absolute best for an RS imho. It's a heavier & much lower revving & less powerful unit with a fuel injection system that is less responsive, but they are very long-lasting.

faster

i believe its this month?? #154 edition of 911&Porsche World has a few stories and nice pics of RS and 70's vintage P-cars including a 964 with 70's front and rear styling, pretty neat!! and its hard to tell, complete with long hood too. page 38

better bodies usa has a RS front and rear kit for $925.00

Daniel Dudley

Got ya Grant. The last real clone RS I saw went for 50 K. And there is quite a weight penalty for a later car. Still, I think there are going to be more later cars converted in the near future.

2thmvr

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Please keep it coming. It sounds like it is best to buy to buy a clone that is already built. Where is the best place to find one? I also like the look of the RSR. What is the difference and what do you think of them vs. the RS?

GrantG

RSR differences are basically:

1. Wider flares (9" front wheels, 11" rears)
2. Much better and pricier motor (2.8L dual-plug, 308hp @ 8k revs hi-compression, high butterfly MFI) - this motor can exhaust your entire budget easily
3. 917 4-piston brakes by Lockheed - 930 Brembo brakes make a good "budget" replacement
4. 915 gearbox with LSD and cooler
5. Front spoiler has oil cooler and brake cooling ducts
6. Bilstein coilover suspension (no torsion bars)