BMWDavid

I'm looking to get my first Porsche. I came across an '83 SC with 90K miles. Car is all original. Its pretty clean by looking at pics on line. Supposedly never been in salt.

Ext. color is a dark red/burg. with a tan int./leather. Not my first choice but it looks nice. Anyway...the engine still has the old style/original cam chain tensioners as per current owner as he has all paper work from previous owner and there is nothing to indicate any tensioner upgrades. How does one tell if the Carrera style tensioners have been installed? Car has had a 90K service, new battery, coil,plugs,filters,oil,fluid and not sure if a valve adjustment was done.


Is this something I should run away from? Or should I consider car but negotiate the price down to reflect this (possible lack of Carrera cam chain tensioners)...by how much?

I've not looked at the car in person yet. I'm trying to qualify the car before making a trip to look at it and drive. Seller indicates possible sale at $14-$15K. Is this a reasonable figure (assuming this car is) for an '83 SC?

Thanks for the help!

David

Daniel Dudley

Read the second post from the top. You need a pre purchase inspection. 911 SCs are great cars, but they have a few weak points that cannot be established without a proper service history or a PPI.

The Used 911 Story is a great book, Excellence magazine is a great periodical.

If you get the right 911, you will be very happy with it. The wrong one can be a financial disaster. You must drive the car, and see if you like it. You must get a PPI, and find a mechanic you can trust.
Learn from other's mistakes.

qball

Dave,
I just bought an 83sc myself,76.xxx miles, all orig, excellent cond.
Chain tensioners and pop off valve never done. My wrench told me that the pop off valve is a must but by 83 porsche had redesigned the sprockets assoc. with the tensioners. That fix eleminated 90% of the problem . Good enough for me. Price seems fair for a nice clean orig. car with records.( I paid more).
A ppi is a must have. Good Luck.

chrisp

Don't know if this is a helpful data point but I bought my '83 coupe in 2001 and paid a few grand less than what you are looking at. It didn't have any great options and the paint was in appropriate condition. It had 105k miles and known issues were minimal, just the requisite oil leaks. I had the PO take it to a reputable p-car shop for a PPI. I bought a one way ticket and drove it home. Shortly after I got home the alternator went. In the winter of 2003 I dropped the motor for a clutch job and other stuff. I found one broken stud and decided to have the motor rebuilt to stock class racing spec including upgrades like Carrera tensioners, SSI's, etc. Expect to pay about $7k-$9k for that not including the SSI's, tensioners, and clutch. The car hasn't required any repairs except for that. There's been a lot of refreshing of old parts. It's now a race car so I can't really tell you what I would have spent to make it a good street car. I have $25k-$30k in it and outside of the rebuild I have done 95% of the work myself.

The cars are pretty bombproof and if you're good with your hands and have the tools you can do most all of the repairs/upgrades yourself.

Unfortunately due to the high failure rate of case studs in 3.0 cars I would assume you will need a rebuild in the next 0-3 years. That could be a DIY $400 project for just the studs all the way up to a $4k-$5k cost for a top level shop giving you the full refresh within factory spec.

Another data point is my brother who last year purchased an '84 Coupe with 90k miles that had only the regular maintenance done to it. It was in average condition but required about $500 to get the engine running awesome. He paid well under $15k for it.

Good luck.

hollywood213

consider the car, but negotiate the priced down to reflect the upgrades it will need. if you buy it at 15k then have to spend 5k your into it for 20k. i originally looked for an sc, but later found my 88 carrera. the owner had the top end rebuilt at around 90k mi, i now have 170k and have had virtually no problems with my car

good luck

ZAMIRZ

Easiest way to tell if there are Carrera tensioners is that they have oil lines with banjo fittings running into the cam-chain covers.

Loaded

I would look at the price again I bought mine for 16k even its a cab with all books and records

BMWDavid

Thanks for the input. Now I know a little more. Duh, of course there will be oil lines to the cam covers if they have Carrera tensioners. Well live and learn. I guess thats why there are no stupid questions right guys.

I'm assuming the cam covers will be visible at the rear of car? I've been looking at a lot of classifieds and prices are all over the place. I'm still thinking that I can get a decent solid SC in the mid teens. At first I wanted only to consider a '87-'89 3.2 Carrera. But the more I look at the ads the idea of getting a decent car for less than $20K in an SC is appealing. Of course should the right car come along in a 3.2 I feel as if I would go for it. Sure are a lot of whale tailed cars. I sort of like the clean no tail look.

Right now I have a couple of cars that I want to go look at. Got to wait now as the weather looks crappy for the mid-west. It kind of exciting looking at all the ads but I'm getting so that I want a car now.

I know how important the PPI is but its going to be rather hard to pull that off with some of the cars should I get serious. Due to their location in such rural areas its not feasible. I will copy the above guidelines and do the best I can. Of course I can't go pulling valve covers and such.

This is the first time I've really entertained buying an older used car. Great way to get into something that otherwise would be financially imprudent. To all that have their 911's enjoy...I hope to soon join your ranks.

To all of you who live in or near large metro areas I'm a bit envious as you have it easier in your search. It easy to get discouraged when you can't get to see any cars. Anyway, are there any of you located in Indy or Southwest Indiana? I would welcome the oportunity to talk with you and to look at your 911's.

David

flatsixnut

Good luck with your search. Just remember two things....get a PPI done, and remember you dont have to buy the first car you see.

These cars will have prices all over the place...they will bring whatever someone will pay for them.
I would not sell my 83sc for anything.

autobonrun

I wouldn't let the presence or absence of pressure fed tensioners affect my decisons. There are lots of other issues to check during a PPI.

I didn't have them on my 79SC when I bought it, and 23 years later I still don't. Right now the engine has over 211k miles on it. Instead, I installed the collars around the shaft which prevent a total collapse. I figure the first time I open the area again, I'll just buy some more OEM tensioners and chain guides, pop on some more $23 collars and I'm good for another 200k miles.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/euro/cgi.../hydrastop.jpg

Oldtee

A 90K mile car 24 year old 911 can provide years of service and fun, but ....

It can be a money pit. Things like bushings and struts are expensive. Injectors are worn, shift bushings need service, and on and on. If you can work on it yourself ... great ... it will provide hours of mechianical fun. Plenty of support is available, lots of parts, ways to spend money you never thought about. And ...

have a servicable back up car available.

911Mojo

I think that Oldtee is right on the money. Any car that is 20+ years old could use a refresh. $14-15k for a solid SC seems to be torward the high side unless it's in very nice shape. I'd start with the $14k figure and subtract the cost of a tensioner upgrade and pop-off valve. That'd probably put you at a fair price. Rural local or not -- do the PPI and find out about headstuds. Even if you don't do them right away, it's likely to knock $3k off the price if they're broken.

BMWDavid

I'm hearing from you that an SC is proably more in the $13-$14K range before subtracting for PPI issues. Wow! I like those numbers. It seems that every SC I see for sale is priced at levels higher than that. I realize that there are some exceptional cars to be had at a price that reflects that. But I'm sure that they are not all "good" cars.

What has been the experience of others looking at a cars priced in the $15-$17K range or more and actually getting the car for less...say in the $13-$14K range or less? It seems that should I offer $3K or more under asking price for a nice car that I would get shot! Please tell me the real world on this.

My brother-in-law is taking a preliminary look at an '83 SC in Chicago for me. Base on his impression I will decide if a trip there is worth the drive (about 5 hours for me). Anyone in the Windy City or within a 5-6 hour drive of Southwest Indiana know of or want to sell a nice SC or 3.2? I will give it a great home. It will be garaged and given proper excercise on winding country roads. Never will it go out in salt and hardly ever in the rain unless I just get caught in it on the way home.

Again, thanks for all the input. I'm looking to get out on the road this weekend and look at a couple of SC's in the '82-'83 year range. I'm still keeping my options open for a 3.2 car or even a G50. Of course it looks like they pull a much higher price. Anyone here get lucky buying a nice 3.2 for under $20K?

All this looking online and posting is just making it harder for me. I'm hopeful that I will have the "right" 911 in the garage by spring.

David

Jay H

David,

Here's an example of a 'cheap' under $20k purchase price 3.2 Carrera.

I purchased a 1984 3.2 Carrera in good mechanical condition for $12k this past spring. It had 90,000 miles and came with full records and a full 15k tune up done. However, it had paint damage and a crushed oil line. I spent $1000 on paint, another $700 on repairing the oil line and replacing the external thermostat. I got the car aligned, worn suspension parts replaced, and put in a new clutch (and other small While You're In There stuff) as well this summer. I just replaced the fresh air blower that failed for $120 and had to fix the turn signal switch which fried for another $120. All those nickels and dimes add up. So, I'm into the car for $18k now (with sales tax and transportation costs when it was purchased) and still would like to get the A/C back up to snuff. I'm budgeting $2000 for that.

I have about $2000 worth of work to make the interior perfect and show quality (new leather for the front seats, upper door sills and a new headliner). I don't have the time for DIY type stuff, so I pay my mechanic for the big stuff like the clutch and the stuff I can't do like alignments and such. I'm a perfectionist to some degree on these cars and I expect everything to function and work properly on my 911's. That costs money. My car is not a dog cosmetically and is in top shape mechanically (other than the A/C). However, I'm going to easily have $22k in this car when I'm done.

My point from all this banter is that ALL of these cars are $20,000 cars in one way or another if you want them running perfect and looking very good. You may not get to $20,000 during your first year of ownership if you buy a $14,000 SC, but you will in due time. These are old, aging sports cars and they take cash and time to keep them in good shape. Pay now or pay later.

I think it's very realistic to find a very nice SC in the $13,000 to $15,000 range. I also think that an early 915 3.2 Carrera is going to be just slightly more and will cost near $20k for a really, really good one. G-50 Carreras seem to push to $20k or above for very nice examples.

There are plenty of sub $20k 3.2's out there, but expect to spend some money on them if you want them perfect. If you can live with some flaws, you can get away with spending less.

You mention getting shot if you offer $3000 less than asking price on a car. That all depends on your market and the entire 911 market at the current time. If there is demand and the car in question is priced reasonably correct, then yes, you may get "shot" if you offer too low and you may loose the car to a higher 'bidder'. If the car is overpriced (as some high end used car dealers do), then offering $3000 less (or whatever) is smart. For example, if a $14,000 SC is for sale in my are of the country in the March/April time frame when everyone has spring fever and is hot for a 911, then offering $11,000 for at $14,000 car is nuts. But, if it's winter and stuff isn't selling, then you the buyer have the upper hand in what price the car will actually sell for. If a dealer has a nice SC for sale at $19k that is really worth maybe $14-$15k, then offering $5000 less is the smart move IF you are willing to not get this car at your offer price and you can find one (and have the patience to wait) that is priced more reasonably. Each pricing situation is different.

You also have to realize that if you find the 'car of your dreams' for $15,000 and everyone on Rennlist says it's worth $14,000 and no more, then it's probably just smart to spend the so called "extra" $1000 on the car and buy it because you like it. Another $1000-$1500 here or there isn't going to be a big deal if you intend to keep the car awhile and are not just flipping it to another buyer in the short term. I'm probably the fool for buying my '84 with all these issues and just should have waited to find a perfect car for $22k, but I REALLY liked this brown 911 I bought, was very comfortable with the prior owner and his treatment of the car, I like to putz with these things and I enjoy spending money on these darn 911's. So, all this intangible stuff factors into the equation as well. We're not buying Honda Accords to drive to work in so to speak (even though I drive to work in my '84!). We're buying emotional, not real practical automobiles that are a hobby type car.

Hope this helps,

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

GothingNC

Jay,

Very well said

John