butzip

Well even Porsche knew they had to insert something better.

915
Pros - clutch replacement is (much) cheaper (than a G-50)

Cons - bowden tube/cable, complex lever shaft set-up, needs very precise adjustment to operate correctly, fragile syncros, even a rebuilt unit won't go into every gear smoothly all the time.

G-50
Pros - hydraulic clutch NO ADJUSTMENT necessary, Borg Warner syncros nearly bullet proof, hit every gear every time, engineered for much more hp input, works consistently with no fuss. Internally, it's virtually maintenance free.

Cons - clutch replacement is expensive $800.00 in parts alone, clutch fork needle bearings fail (however there is an upgrade, very simple to install once you've removed your engine anyway :-), rebuilds are expensive for both but more for a G-50 thankfully it is very rare to need one, Some people have complained about mysterious 'gear rattle' so far not definatively proven to be the trans but so be it. (do a search on 'gear rattle').

In my SC (915) approaching a fast turn that required fast down shift and precise timing I was never 100% confident I would nail the timing because of the inconsistency of the 915. Sometimes it would go in like butter and other times it would balk and take that extra half a second that was enough to blow your line if not send you off the track. result: had to brake/shift early WTF?!?! In my 67 (901) and 88 (G-50) never any question or hesitation to go deep. Dead-on every time. If there's shifting error, it's my fault.

I'm considering to sell my 88 cab for a coupe and to go back to a 915 IMHO feels like a step backwards. Don't mean to **** anyone off here. It sucks because there are so many SC/carrera 915 cars out there in various states of tune. Obviously the production years for the 915 were what 15 yrs vs the G-50s 3yrs.

Bottomline:
so if you can swing a 87-88 G-50 car, do it. You will pay a little more but you will get a little more.
If your budget won't allow you to go over 18k or so, get the best SC/pre-86 carrera you can find. Though the 915 is 'quirky' YOU will adapt your driving style to it and it will reward you. Hell, it's still a 911!!

Brgds, Peter

butzip

One more thing on the G-50, reverse is synchronized. No need to engage reverse slooowly so as not to grind like in the 915 or pump the clutch to get it to go into 1st at a dead stop.

Not that there is any need to do either of the following actions but..... I just drove my car 30 mins ago and I can put it in 1st gear @ 40mph and into reverse @ 20mph try that with a 915!!

imcarthur

Very good & very fair summary, Peter.

Ian

Astroman

For what it's worth, my buddy bought his 911 from Victory. Though he paid top dollar, it was a pristine car with no issues.

911Mojo

I've driven both and my *personal* preference is for the 915. That aside, the reality is that the G50 Carreras are much more desireable as far as the market is concerned. So, if you don't anticipate keeping the car forever, you'll certainly get whatever premium you pay for a G50 car when you do sell.

visible23

Mojo. Would u mind sharing why you prefer the 915?

mborkow

i don't own either so i am not emotionally attached, but i have driven a couple of earch recently so i thought i'd add my 2 cents. the first 915 i drove was horrible (it was also the first one i had ever driven) and after i was finished test driving it i was convinced that i would not be able to own a car with a 915 because it was just too hard for me to drive. fortunately, i mentioned this to my mechanic who promptly said, "come on, let's take a spin in my car." he has an SC with 100k miles on the tranny, but it shifted perfectly and was a joy to drive: no grind, no hunting around for 3rd gear. it isn't smooth like a g50 (in good condition), but it was nice. the 915 feels quite different than a g50 (or a g50-20 which is in the 993), but it is more fun because it has an old fashioned, primitive, feel to it (which i like when driving an older porsche). the g50 feels a lot more like what i am accustomed to driving (which is good, but different).

Daniel Dudley

Buy a copy of The Used 911 Story by Peter Zimmermann. Worth every penny.

I have an 81 SC grey market car. It was well maintained, and I have relatively few shifting issues.

OTOH, I have been driving old cars since they were new, and it still took me several hours to feel comfortable with the 915 box. If you know how to manipulate it, it is a fast shifting box, but I always double clutch downshift, and have to concentrate on my upshift timing to ensure a really smooth shift. G50 boxes are modern gearboxes. Period, end of story. My SC is a super car, but when I bought it, the guy selling it wasn't happy until he watched me drive it. When he could see I could drive it, he wanted to sell it to me.

I have driven some 911s with awful clutches and gearboxes - Don't buy a car you haven't driven, and do not drive a car that hasn't been inspected by a real porsche mechanic unless you have LOTS of money , cause that might be what it costs to get it fixed.

My 911 SC is as close to an early RS as I am ever going to get, and it is a great car that is very fast, with all the mods and upgrades. To love it is to accept it as it is, and to adapt to the car. It was made in an era when all cars had their quirks and their adherents. The 87 - 89 911 is as close to a perfect version of the 911 as was ever made. They are much less quirky, and more like each other than the older cars, which each seem to have their own personality and disposition. Lots of luck with you purchase.

BMWDavid

First I want to thank all of you for the lengthly and detailed reaponses. This is what its all about on this board!

I'm about 60 miles from Evansville, Indiana and I do know of Brain Buxton. I have been to his store a few times. I will call him and talk "Porsche" with him and drive a car or two if he has one. He has had some nice cars on his lot but at the time I was not serious about getting a car. I know he has a locating service...that is something I will need to consider.

Interesting about Victory Motor Cars. He does have very nice looking cars on his site. I'm not sure that is a way to go for me as its so far away. If I was close enough to drop in that might be another thing. If anything being able to visit Vivctory one could at least see a wide assortment of cars.

I'm pleased to hear that positive endorsement of MPC in Chicago. I've spoken with Tom Simmons breifly about my desires to locate a '87-'89 3.2. Between MPC or Buxton might be my answer.

I appreciate all Porsche's but I've always liked the SC's and the 3.2's for the way they look. The classic Porsche body. One thing I would like is a non-whale tail car.

I keep hearing it over and over that one must be patient during the search for a Porsche. I know that I need to follow this and not jump at the first car or two.
I have driven a couple of '87 3.2 Coupes. I'm pretty sure they were not very representative of good 911's of this time. The cars felt loose and used. My budget is in the $20-$25K range. I'm hopeful that this will get me a very nice car. So I'll keep looking and driving cars to further my quest for the "perfect" 911.

As for my "BMWDavid" screen name...yes I am A BMW fan and have been for 30 some years. Currently drive a '95 M3 that I bought new and also have a '06 VW GTI/DSG. The Porsche is to be an addition to this group and used as a weekend driver.

Should I be in a position to just drop in at the Porsche dealer I think I would order a 997 GT3. But...I checked and I can't swing the $105K. Bummer! I realize that the 3.2 is an old car. That is OK. I want some rawness in a car.

Well enough rambling here, must get back to searching for my 3.2 Carrera.

Thanks again!

David

ajmarton

I think the process of looking for the right 911 varies depending on the individual. I have a 928, a Dino Spyder and a Jag XJ8. All of these cars are quite quirky but have ended up being fine cars. I did restore the Dino but that is another story.

I have bought nothing but used cars over the last 10 years and felt comfortable in buying the first 911 that met my very focused expectations. I have also had good experiences with EBay and my last 3 cars have been purchased via EBay (but always after a PPI). I came across the exact 911 I wanted (89 cab/ low miles / black w/ tan interior / documented history / no known damage / private party preferred) in Kansas City. The 911 was a 9 on a scale of 10 with a repair history for the last 12 or so and no stories. It had 44k miles. I drove it for an hour and had a PPI performed and some minor maintenance items came up but nothing that was a major concern. I did use the owners mechanic - as he was the only reputable Porsche shop around (http://www.imagineauto.com/index3.htm) and the only other choice - the dealer (Aristocrat) has a so-so rep (I also distrust dealers when it comes to PPIs on older vehicles). Anyway, the price was adjusted downward slightly and I bought the cab and drove it back to Los Angeles. Everything as been fine since then with just the expected updating fixing small items that either failed after the purchase or as a result of my fiddling around.

So I guess the point is that you may come across what you want early on. Just make sure it meets your expectations and that you do not take any short cuts.

louis hong

I drove both 86 and 87 few times and always felt more comfortable with the g50. So I focused my shopping to 87-89 and I bought a 87. I am very happy with my decison. Good luck to you.

Daniel Dudley

BTW, good 911 steering is light and precise, but is always talking to you and will load up in corners. It seems like you would feel a dime if you ran it over.

jimcabc

As the owner of a '87 911 Cabrio, I can say the G50 is pretty nice. I don't have much experience with the older trans for comparison though. This car would make for a great tour across country. That said, take a look at Ooley & Blackburn's web site. They have a nice '86 911 Cabrio. Plus they are almost in your neighborhood - Carmel Indiana, which is a northern suburb of Indianapolis. They like selling Porsches and do have a good reputation as far as I know.

Jim
'87 911 Cabrio
3X black

911Mojo

There are a lot of sportscars out there. Certainly compared to the early (through '89) 911's, there are faster and more modern cars. But, I choose to drive a 911. One of the things I enjoy best about it is the raw and vintage feel. The 915 adds a lot to that feel. It requires you pay attention to your shifts. The long throws just feel more 'old school' if that makes sense.

Mike Murphy

I would first, decide to test drive a bunch of cars. Tom at MPC will let you take about 5 different cars out on a test drive. I know because I did exactly this. Once you drive a couple cars, you will then know what you prefer. The first time I drove a 915, I told Tom that I thought the transmission was broken! I asked to drive another car, and it was the same result...turns out, I was broken, not the car .

I don't mind buying from a dealer, because many of them have great cars, but I don't see the sense in paying 9.5% sales tax, as well as a 5% increase for the "dealer special." That said, Tom is fair and honest, and he has great cars. You will not go wrong with him. I bought my 3.2 Targa from a private party and saved about $2k. But only buy private after test driving at least 5 or 6 different cars. Only then will you know how a good car is supposed to feel.

Oh, yeah, the 915 vs G50 debate: either one is great.