Russ L.

THERE'S TOO MANY CHOICES...I NEED SOME ADVICE FROM SOME EXPERIENCED AUTO-X'ERS OUT THERE...I'M LOOKING FOR, FRONT AND REAR PADS FOR MY 84 EURO CAB. JUST AUTOCROSSING WITH IT NOW BUT MAY DO A D.E. NEXT SEASON. I HAVEN'T TOUCHED BASE WITH MY CLUB MEMBERS YET BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH ADVICE. THANKS IN ADVANCE

2002M3Drew

Hi Russ,

You don't (or rather shouldn't) use your brakes in autox enough to really feel any effect from track pads. In fact, since track pads need heat in them to get grippy, a good set of performance street pads is your best bet for autox. If you are going to do track as well, a good hybrid pad is the BHP pad. Stable Energies in NJ sells them, and they have all of the advantages of a good street pad along with the progressive grip of a decent track pad.

From experience with an older 911 in autox, they are much faster when you regulate your speeds going into the turns and only use the brakes in light taps to induce bite on turn in, or rotation. If you are getting into the brakes hard, you will lose precious seconds!

Russ L.

MY CAPS BUTTON IS JAMMED...LOL! THANKS DREW...I'M STILL WORKING ON MY DRIVING TECHNIQUE...IT'S SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING I'VE EVER DRIVEN...BUT VERY COOL!OVER THE WINTER I'M GOING TO START WORKING ON THE SUSPENSION AS WELL BUT I'M SURE I CAN SHAVE A FEW SECONDS BY JUST WORKING ON TIRE PRESSURES AND BRAKING TECHNIQUE. THANKS AGAIN B.T.W. ARE YOU IN ZONE 1 PCA? YOU MENTIONED STABLE ENERGIES...THEY'ER JUST OVER THE G.W.B. RIGHT? RUSS

Rotten Robby

Drew is right. You only use the brakes to "set" the suspension on a 911. In many corners if you don't brake hard to bring the weight to the front these cars will push like a pig. In other higher speed corners if you lift and brake the rear will come out.
I attended a driving school and Dick Turner was instructing. He said "I want rear drivers here (pointing) front drivers here (again pointing) and Porsche 911 drivers here" (pointing once again). After we all laughed he said "I am not being funny, 911's drive differently than any other car".
This of course has changed with the newer 911 having all the electronic controls and such but the older ones are a handful to drive in an autocross until you know what you are doing.
Rob

Russ L.

ROB..."YOU AINT KIDDING" LOL! The first time out with her I felt like Dorthy Hammil in the ice capades!LOL I drifted more than drove.Now I'm getting used to her but still have problems with "planting the front"...it seems like I have to stab the pedal and then turn...right?

Edward

Weight transfer is critical in driving any car more quickly around a corner, even more important for a 911. "Stab then turn" is right ...for the right corner. But not necessarily right for every corner ...you figure that out. Once you get accustomed to the nuances of weight transfer, you will drop times big time. That's one of the things that makes driving a 911 so rewarding!


BTW, in response to your initial question, I like PFC (Perofrmance Friction) pads for the track. I don't know much about auto-x, but I seriously doubt that you need better than street pads for an auto-x ...just not enough heat built up to cause problems for good 911 brakes. Fresh high-temp fluid with a good street pad should be plenty, really.

Edward

2002M3Drew

One of the key differences between track and autox is the concept of carrying momentum and what that means to each respective discipline. On the track, you are looking to maintain speed lap after lap, carrying momentum in the sections where you can maximize staight line speed. In autox, however, there are few long straights, and many tight turns (as you no doubt have discovered!). These tight turns in anything but a torque monster (which the 911 certainly is not) requires that you carry as much speed through the tight sections to set up the next section of the autox. A big part of this is to not use the brakes as much...in fact, you want to generally use them as little as necessary. If you take two laps through a course and compare - The first taking a fast entry, late hard braking with turning under braking, and then acceleration out, versus a line where you come into the turn slightly off boil, at say 60%, use the brakes lightly and quickly to just plant the car before getting right back on the gas - usually the second way is faster in time. The first way FEELS faster on the ol' pants-o-meter, but overbraking in autox kills times. I learned to do this in a Miata, and that is the ultimate school for this concept!

The biggest thing you can do to plant a stock suspensioned 911 is lower it with the factory adjustments to about 1/2" below Euro height. If you do suspension, I would suggest 22/29 T-Bars and adjustable sways of 22 or 23MM front and rear...then you can adjust balance with the sways. Once a 911 takes a set and you power through a corner full throttle, you never want to go back to a front engine!

2002M3Drew

I am in Zone 1 (NNJR PCA is in Zone 1), but I missed the event at Devens this fall. That place is great...I was bnummed to not be able to go. I did the NE Solo II National Tour event there now two years in a row in my buddy's GT3...a great autox track for sure.

Stable Energies is in Garfield, pretty close to the GWB and Rt. 80. Bob Kakascik (I'm sure I butchered his name) is a nice guy, as is his daughter, Laurette, who works their store.

Russ L.

ANY FEEDBACK ON PORTERFIELD OR PAGID PADS?

Russ L.

Drew...I run with metro...just did our last auto-x at tobay beach a few weeks ago...What do I have to do to get a list of events for your area?We have a few real quick guys from jersey show up...but they're doing F.T.D. speeds...I just watch and drool! LOL!

2002M3Drew

You can check out: http://www.autox4u.com

Or:

http://www.nnjr-pca.com/site/modules...BB2&file=index

I was at a Metro event at Nassau (we triple drove the GT3 at that event...two in regular, one in ladies) this past September. They run a great event. Our region does as well...most events are at Giant Stadium, and a couple at PNC down in Holmdel (avoid if you value tires, wheels and paintwork!).

Edward

Whatever brand pad you buy, be certain that you are buying the correct *compound* for your intended mission. A good track pad like Pagid Oranges or PFC's compound 97 may feel like crap in an a-x session where one does not generate the same heat one would in a track session; a pad not operating within its design temperature parameters is not going to work as it was, um, designed to. Compound choice is equally important if not more so than brand preferences.

FWIW, I've heard many praise their Porterfields, Hawks, Pagids, EBCs; and I liked my PFC-97s so much from tracking my 993 that I use them now on my SC trackmeister ...and with excellent results.

Edward

Rotten Robby

A lot of people make the mistake of track preparation for an autocross car. In many, perhaps most cases they are quite a different path... Yet, I hear people talking about putting in Limited Slip Differential instead of Torque Biasing Differential for autocross. People putting Big Reds on 914s with 4 cylinders. The best thing you can do for autocross is make sure that the car is in very good maintained condition, get good tires and above all else tighten the nut behind the wheel!
I would just make sure your stock brakes are in very good condition. If your brakes fade in autocross you have some very bad maintainance issues.

g-50cab

I like the Porterfield R4s for street and autocross and R4 for DE - great pads.

2002M3Drew

FWIW, my new "do it all" pad is the Pagid RS-19 Yellow pad. They are a bit pricey, but they last darned near forever, stop in all weather and temperature conditions, and don't squeak with proper brake lube on the backings. When they get hot, their grip with the stock calipers is phenomenal, and fade is non-existant. I wouldn't run these if I wasn't doing track driving, however.