SS brakelines
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Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 170
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From: Arlington, VA
SS brakelines
Anyone have any comments on putting stainless steel brake lines on 911? The car goes into the shop next week to get ready for the season and was thinking about adding new lines. Thanks.
Technical Specialist
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,864
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From: TX
Nate,
Stainless-covered brake hoses will reduce some of the expansion inherant in stock rubber lines, so you get a firmer feel to the brakes. The thing to consider is how often will you be willing to replace them? The concern with them is you can't see under the stainless braid. If something works it's way under the braid or the braid frays and starts rubbing on the underlying teflon line, you may not know there's a problem until there's a bigger problem. Many racers who use them change them yearly. Rubber lines, OTOH, are a no maintenance item good for 10 years+. For my dual purpose street/DE 911, I use rubber lines.
Stainless-covered brake hoses will reduce some of the expansion inherant in stock rubber lines, so you get a firmer feel to the brakes. The thing to consider is how often will you be willing to replace them? The concern with them is you can't see under the stainless braid. If something works it's way under the braid or the braid frays and starts rubbing on the underlying teflon line, you may not know there's a problem until there's a bigger problem. Many racers who use them change them yearly. Rubber lines, OTOH, are a no maintenance item good for 10 years+. For my dual purpose street/DE 911, I use rubber lines.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Kent, CT
Nate, As Bill pointed out, stainless lines require more upkeep. On our cars the stock brake lines are REALLY good. The small amount of improvement you see with stainless lines is not worth the swap, IMO. You will benifit more from bleeding your brakes on a regular basis.
Cheers, James
Cheers, James
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 348
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From: West Chester, Pa
Nate,
Also note that there are 2 type of stainless braided brake lines - 'regular' and D.O.T approved , which are more expensive. I don't know what the cost/benefit advantage is to the DOT ones, especially considering the potential for unseen damage as Bill points out.
Also note that there are 2 type of stainless braided brake lines - 'regular' and D.O.T approved , which are more expensive. I don't know what the cost/benefit advantage is to the DOT ones, especially considering the potential for unseen damage as Bill points out.
RL Technical Advisor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,870
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From: Portland Oregon
[quote]Originally posted by john d 81SC:
<strong>Nate,
Also note that there are 2 type of stainless braided brake lines - 'regular' and D.O.T approved , which are more expensive. I don't know what the cost/benefit advantage is to the DOT ones, especially considering the potential for unseen damage as Bill points out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
John:
The difference between non-DOT and DOT-spec SS brake lines is in the way the lines are attached and supported at the end fittings.
DOT doesn't "approve" these kinds of things, they only publish a specification about line flexure. The DOT-spec SS brake lines reduce the flexing and movement caused by brake line pressure spikes.
This is the root cause of SS line failure as they simply break off where the fitting is swedged onto the line, when this happens.
In my 26+ years of Porsche experience, I've not seen a failure of any SS lines if they were properly installed in the first place. Some of these have been on cars since 1978, and while I'm not suggesting such a thing, IMHO SS line problems are mostly caused by poor installation practices.
I only use the DOT-spec lines anymore and I only buy good ones at that as this is no place to pinch pennies. Some of these things are not made here in the USA and their QC is not the same at all. Caveat Emptor!
While the OEM rubber ones are quite foolproof, older 911's with non-boosted brakes do have a better pedal feel with SS lines and one should not be afraid of these IF they are installed correctly. They are NOT foolproof in this regard.
Lastly, flushing the brakes with new clean fluid every year goes along way toward preventing internal caliper corrosion and deterioration, not to mention better brake performance,.....
<strong>Nate,
Also note that there are 2 type of stainless braided brake lines - 'regular' and D.O.T approved , which are more expensive. I don't know what the cost/benefit advantage is to the DOT ones, especially considering the potential for unseen damage as Bill points out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
John:
The difference between non-DOT and DOT-spec SS brake lines is in the way the lines are attached and supported at the end fittings.
DOT doesn't "approve" these kinds of things, they only publish a specification about line flexure. The DOT-spec SS brake lines reduce the flexing and movement caused by brake line pressure spikes.
This is the root cause of SS line failure as they simply break off where the fitting is swedged onto the line, when this happens.
In my 26+ years of Porsche experience, I've not seen a failure of any SS lines if they were properly installed in the first place. Some of these have been on cars since 1978, and while I'm not suggesting such a thing, IMHO SS line problems are mostly caused by poor installation practices.
I only use the DOT-spec lines anymore and I only buy good ones at that as this is no place to pinch pennies. Some of these things are not made here in the USA and their QC is not the same at all. Caveat Emptor!
While the OEM rubber ones are quite foolproof, older 911's with non-boosted brakes do have a better pedal feel with SS lines and one should not be afraid of these IF they are installed correctly. They are NOT foolproof in this regard.
Lastly, flushing the brakes with new clean fluid every year goes along way toward preventing internal caliper corrosion and deterioration, not to mention better brake performance,.....