Jonny A

I have chosen a shop I want to work with when I purchase a 911.
He told me Bosch has stopped making the new parts for the cis fuel management system znymore. He is not sure if after market parts will be as good.
This in his opinion will make my search for a 74-77s not a very good choice.
If cis parts are in short supply, will adding carbs a problem choice if the car has to go through emissions and they deem the carbs to be fooling with emission control for the car.

87 635 csi
looking for a 911s

racer

While I can't comment on CIS Parts availability, Carburators would be a poor substitute. Even older technology and NOT emmisions friendly. Nowadays, I would suspect aftermarket EFI systems would be a better route to explore, if you were to replace the CIS system.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Jonny:

FWIW,... Bosch discontinued the manufacture of CIS parts a few years ago and all we see are rebuilt items such as Fuel Distributors and Warmup Regulators; the two most critical parts.

The aftermarket stuff is a crapshoot; some are OK and some are junk.

My best advice for anyone contemplating the purchase of a CIS-equipped car is to ensure that its running very well. For people who own a CIS-injected car, take VERY good care of it with the proper fuel additiives and keeping the filters (in-tank & external) very clean. Avoid ethanol-blended gasolines if possible.

Carbs are OK for performance applications but if the car must be smog-tested, they are not a good choice.

Peter Zimmermann

So, Steve, if critical CIS replacement parts become NLA (no longer available), what do you suppose will happen to the cars that use those parts. Many years ago emissions testers in CA looked the other way regarding '68 911s and 912s, when smog pump repair parts became NLA. Those cars were allowed to continue on. Now, let's consider an '81 SC, with a contaminated fuel distributor and failed warm up regulator and frequency valve. "Rebuilt" parts are installed, but the car still doesn't run properly, nor will it pass an emissions test. A shop certifies the engine as sound, and supplies written proof that new replacement parts are NLA. I wonder how difficult it will be to get the car from that point to "S" cams, SSIs and PMO carbs...hmmmm? And what test parameters will the car be required to meet, or will it be assigned a waiver?
Cheers!
Pete

fixnprsh

you can get a waiver if you have to spend over a certain amount in CA, but then you have to be tested at a ref station every year, instead of every two years at a regular or test only station.

I think the will become a little more lax on this stuff as the cars are old, there aren't that many left around, so eh.

I had a guy I built a 3.4 930 with 964 cams, enrichment (disabled) B&B headers/exhaust with an HKS waste gate w/external dump tube pass a test only with no air injection, thermal reactors............... at a test only station, All I did was disable the enrichment, lean it out a hair and monkey with the timing, and it passed.

My guess is the smog tech didn't know what the hell was supposed to be there since its in the book he is supposed to use anyway, it all depends on the tech, here in Socal, just go to a smog shop and you can pay $100-$200 for a "Pass the first time or its free" deal, not as easy with the dyno now, but a friend of mine has an E30 M3 that has "smogged" quite a few other E30 M3's

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Pete:

Honestly, I think this is going to be a problem.

Waivers seem to be a state-by-state situation. For example, Oregon has no such thing and if one's car cannot pass here for whatever reason, you either park it or sell it. No free rides whatsoever. Washington is similar but gives a "pass" if you prove that you've spent something like $ 400 or more to make the effort. That applies to older cars only, AFAIK.

I have no idea about other states with emissions laws, but there might be other states like Oregon's draconian emissions statutes.

JM993

Wouldn't this also pose a problem for 911SCs and 94 and earlier turbos? Or are only the early CIS parts NLA?

Just curious.

Peter Zimmermann

Wow, Steve, I didn't know that Oregon was a throw-it-away state! When I sold the shop we were still able to get accumulators, warm up regulators, injectors, air valves, freq valves, etc. as new parts. We had been using Bosch rebuilt fuel distributors for many years, and they were fine. Is this problem serious enough, in your opinion, that some of these parts should be squirreled away? I have two fuel distributors and a sensor plate housing (for SC), and two OXS relays, but none of the other items.
Best, Pete

Droops83

It is going to be interesting to see how reliable these rebuilt units are going to be. The sad part is that for certain years of CIS 911s, you can't even get Bosch rebuilt fuel distributors, only ones rebuilt by "Python Injection." I think you can only still get bosch rebuilt ones for the later SCs, at least through the parts suppliers we use. I have installed a couple of the Python ones on 2.7s for customers who had bad fuel distributors, and we had no choice but to bite the bullet and try these unproven units, since the cars needed a new one to pass smog and run right and that was all we could get. In both cases, the car ran fine and passed smog after, but the jury is still out on the long-term durability of these units. This is especially questionable since the CIS fuel distributor is such a precision-built part w/ extremely fine tolerances. I hope that for the sake of the reputation of all our shops, and for all of us they turn out to be OK. As a side note I'd imagine there are still a few new units out there for the later 930 and 964 Turbos, though.

---

Chris Andropoulos
Schneider Autohaus
Santa Barbara, CA

Jay H

Very interesting conversations.

Does anyone remember the article in 'excellence' mag a while back that featured an early Turbo that was modified by a shop that (correct me if I'm wrong) replaced the CIS with more modern fuel injection technology?

Supposedly, without other mods, these early Turbos were more driveable, had an easier time meeting emissions, got better fuel economy and delivered more power.

Might that be the way things go with these CIS cars? Obviously the conversions done on the Turbo's I mentioned above were costly, but with more demand, some companies could cash in on this and make a win win situation for themselves and CIS owners.

I too agree that this whole CIS thing is going to be an issue with all the ethanol that is being pushed on us.

Just some thoughts...

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

smross

I think that Bosch is starting to reintroduce some of the CIS stuff through their "Bosch Tradition" division:

http://www.bosch-automotive-traditio...n/listen_p.htm