Jonny A

When I was younger, I had the pleasure to own a 72 E and a 77 S. Now that I am closer to retirement, I am looking a purchasing a 911 that I can work on. I have driven an sc and a 77S lately, and my impressions were the 77S had alot more snap to the motor than the sc and the brakes were definetely better. Both cars have recently had the motors completely rebuilt by good Porsche shops. Is the 2.7 worth looking at or should I keep looking up the ladder to an sc or carrera?

Steward B.

I would be very surprised if a correctly rebuilt SC wasn't more powerful than a 2.7 unless the 2.7 was mechanical fuel injection. There was not a MFI option in 1977.

A properly rebuilt 2.7 is a decent engine but it is always going to be less desirable than a well maintained SC.

Check out Bruce Anderson's articles in Excellence for more information on comparing the 2.7 and the SC.

The brakes are essentially the same on both cars. The 77 is a bit lighter but not that much. I had a wonderful 1980 SC which I drove, tracked and raced for 18 years, sold recently, and still miss it but have moved to a 93 C4 for the street and an earlier car to club race.

Good luck. Take your time looking, that's half the fun.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Jonny:

A PROPERLY built 2.7 is a very good engine indeed as long as its equipped with the factory front oil cooler (radiator type), the 11-blade fan, and the removal of any thermal reactors. Temperature control is the key to longevity & durability with the 2.7.

The '77 cars are a tad lighter than the SC's (all things being equal) and these engines are more peaky with that 4000 RPM rush. SC's have more low-end torque so they don't "feel" as fast.

As Steward said, the brakes are identical so if one felt better, chalk that up to some issues with the SC that you drove.

The SC does offer larger wheels & tires in the rear that helps balance the handling of the car for most people and the SC motor/gearbox is VERY good. Make sure that the Dilivar studs have been replaced on any SC and the rubber-centered clutch disc has also been replaced with the spring-center version.

All things being equal, I'd look for an SC or Carrera,..... Remember, a thorough PPI precedes any good car purchase so there are no surprises.

Good luck to you on your search. Get a copy of Pete Zimmerman's book: "The Used 911 Story" and the Bentley repair manual appropriate for your purchase and you'll be in fine shape.

Jonny A

Thank you both for your replies. After I thought about it, the 77S did give that rush around 4000 rpm's, and the sc does have that great low end torque. I have not looked into both of these cars because the only thing going for these two cars are the rebuilt motors, they both are not in that great of shape.

What are anybodies thoughts on pmo carbs to a 2.7 litre.

With todays ethanol fuel added, will that be a problem ?

Thank again for your replys.

Jonny A

Highly modified 87 BMW 635 csi

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Jonny:

First, ethanol-based fuels are not good for carbureted nor MFI-equipped engines but as long as it doesn't contain more than 10% ethanol, you can deal with it. There are some special measures that should be taken for any motor using ethanol-laced fuels to prevent corrosion and water damage.

PMO carbs on a 2.7 make a dandy combination as long as you are wise in the way of these carburetors and have the patience and ability to set them up correctly. Without knowing some details about your experience and mechanical abiliites, its very difficult to tell you if these would be OK for you,...

I need to stress that 2.7's are very good engines IF,...............IF they are built correctly. The induction system matters little if they are not,.................

Droops83

Good comments above, the SCs are a more durable motor in the long run, but if a 2.7 is built right and is rid of the 5 blade fan and thermal reactors you're good. I find your comments on the brakes interesting, the SCs are the first 911s to have vacuum brake boosters, the 2.7s are manual brakes, so you generaly have to give em a bigger push, but some people, myself included, like that better. PMOs are beautiful looking and sounding items, totally worth the investment. But like Steve said they have to be set up right. That said, the guy there has worked w/ 911s and Weber/his own carbs for so long that if u call him up and tell him what motor you're running he'll jet the carbs pretty damn close to what u need and you'll be happy. Good luck!

---

Chris Andropoulos
Schneider Autohaus
Santa Barbara, CA

Jonny A

Thank you Steve and Chris for your replies.

I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding suspension and brakes systems. I have completely changed the suspension to full adjustable coilovers, poly bushs, and spherical bearings on my 87 635 csi. I have also changed my brakes to Alcon 4 piston race calipers up front with M5 rear caliper/rotors and larger mc to balance the system.

I have not rebuilt a engine as complex as the 911, but would probably leave that to a qualified shop anyway.

I live in Seattle area and there are some very good shops here.

I looked further into both of those cars and they both have a top end rebuild only, so after rereading Bruce Andersons book on rebuilds, I will not look at these cars any further.

I have a soft spot for the 74-77 cars since I have such fine memories of my 77S, so I any leaning toward that car and it sounds like I could make it a reliable 911 if I do the engine work right.

I am even thinking of trying to find my old 77S if it is stii around.

Thanks again.

Droops83

Wow Jonny your 635csi sounds like its really nice to drive. Ever driven a Euro M6? We work on a few of those at my shop and man they are fun cars, great throttle response and sounds from the ITBs. Maybe you'll find a motor from one someday. Anyway good luck again w/ your 911 search.

---

Chris Andropoulos
Schneider Autohaus
Santa Barbara, CA

curtp91

I just purchased a 77S for 6K. If you need any info, drop me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.

I spent about 40hrs upgrading various things, so I can tell you what to look for if you're interested...just don't want to rehash what's probably already on the list...

Regards,
Curt

Jonny A

Chris A

I have owned my 635 for 7 years and have spent most of that time refining the suspension on this car. IT IS an awesome drive. I have two friends who own an 85 m635 euro and an 88 M6. They both drive differently than my 6, I did not think the very high expense of the M engines out weighted the extra 50 or so horse power.

I am just about to add ported intake, adjustable fuel regulator, bigger injectors, a little hotter cam, ported exhaust manifolds, and a race cat exhaust system.

That should give me the extra horse power and torque.

I'll let you know.

Jonny A.

87 635 csi BMW
Looking for a 911S.

RoninLB

real nice with a nice cam.

Like Steve says.. it's how you tune them. Tuned right and a stock 3.2 guy will say "WTF do you have in this thing?"

that said, displacement can't be beat all other things being equal.

You NW guys are lucky that you have some excellent tuners up there.