A/C barrier hose install DIY project?
07-03-2014, 03:56 PM
#16
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2012
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You could avoid replacing the non-barrier hoses altogether via adding some system design aspects used by many other vehicle manufacturers of "this" era. My 1992 Ford Aerostar, for instance, has a HPRV incorporated in the system design. The purpose was to vent the R-12 to atmosphere should the high side pressure inadvertently rise to high beyond design pressure.
Apparently this HPRV design aspect was widely used throughout the industry to control/limit R-12 pressure.
"Vent to atmosphere''... R12? Say WHAT??!!
According to the 1992 Ford AeroStar shop/repair manual the HPRV is expected to activate ONLY in rare instances that might otherwise cause damage to the components.
HIGH day in August in Dallas, HOT engine and radiator post shut down, no radiator cooling airflow, no evaporator blower activity...
If even Ford foresaw this possibility why not Porsche...??
Or did they? At what pressure level does the R-12 refrigerant begin to FULLY permeate the factory non-barrier hoses? 300-500 PSI or even less?
What is the maximum pressure in normal operation that Porsche expected to see in our air-cooled 911 A/C..?
HOT day in August in Dallas, HOT engine and exhaust post shutdown, NO engine/exhaust manifold cooling airflow, NO evaporator cooling airflow...
How high might the refrigerant pressure in our A/C go in conditions compariable to those wherein Ford, Chevrolete, etc, had an expectation of the need to "vent R-12 refrigerant to atmosphere"..??
Now...
Since in normal operation R-134a operates at higher pressures than R-12, the EPA requires that conversions from R-12 to R-134a include a compressor high pressure limit to prevent any inadvertent "vent to atmosphere" incidents.
And now the GOOD news...
While your factory non-barrier hoses might allow full permeation with R-12, the EPA has now published an engineering white paper that discloses a new, more recent, laboratory finding, study.
Non-barrier hoses that were previously "conditioned" via long term use of R-12 will not leak the new R-134a refrigerant.
Convert to R-134a, prevent extreme high pressure excursions, your factory non-barrier hose wills provide service life beyond that with the use of R-12.
Read the paragraph on "permeation".
http://www.epatest.com/609/manual/609_section4.html
Apparently this HPRV design aspect was widely used throughout the industry to control/limit R-12 pressure.
"Vent to atmosphere''... R12? Say WHAT??!!
According to the 1992 Ford AeroStar shop/repair manual the HPRV is expected to activate ONLY in rare instances that might otherwise cause damage to the components.
HIGH day in August in Dallas, HOT engine and radiator post shut down, no radiator cooling airflow, no evaporator blower activity...
If even Ford foresaw this possibility why not Porsche...??
Or did they? At what pressure level does the R-12 refrigerant begin to FULLY permeate the factory non-barrier hoses? 300-500 PSI or even less?
What is the maximum pressure in normal operation that Porsche expected to see in our air-cooled 911 A/C..?
HOT day in August in Dallas, HOT engine and exhaust post shutdown, NO engine/exhaust manifold cooling airflow, NO evaporator cooling airflow...
How high might the refrigerant pressure in our A/C go in conditions compariable to those wherein Ford, Chevrolete, etc, had an expectation of the need to "vent R-12 refrigerant to atmosphere"..??
Now...
Since in normal operation R-134a operates at higher pressures than R-12, the EPA requires that conversions from R-12 to R-134a include a compressor high pressure limit to prevent any inadvertent "vent to atmosphere" incidents.
And now the GOOD news...
While your factory non-barrier hoses might allow full permeation with R-12, the EPA has now published an engineering white paper that discloses a new, more recent, laboratory finding, study.
Non-barrier hoses that were previously "conditioned" via long term use of R-12 will not leak the new R-134a refrigerant.
Convert to R-134a, prevent extreme high pressure excursions, your factory non-barrier hose wills provide service life beyond that with the use of R-12.
Read the paragraph on "permeation".
http://www.epatest.com/609/manual/609_section4.html
But maybe someone else will find it helpful and save their money and follow your suggestion
07-03-2014, 08:07 PM
#17
Yes OP, R&R of AC hoses can be a DIY job. And as other fellow "members", those paying their dues and those unfortunate like myself to never have been graciously reminded to pay mine, have noted the job is dooable!
Here is what you will need:
1) A good set of OEM style barrier hoses, or custom as you need, supplied by
(can't say). All hoses to be labeled and placed in the box in chronological order, we don't use alpha order, along with well written instructions designed to keep you off the forums so you can focus on the task at hand.
2) 4 good jack stands.
3) A good rolling floor jack, one that fits under the car or you need one of those funky metal things that goes in the 'plug' under the side sills. NEVER use the factory jack to hold up the car; you can only use it to lift the car just enough to get your floor jack under where you need. If you need to discuss lift points its in the Instructions.
4) Common tools; metric, standard, open ends and sockets, if you need a detailed list just pay my dues for this year here and I'll even have the list
certified.
5) A clean flat spot to work on the car, a garage is preferred but you can work outdoors if you enjoy the weather; oh, and you don't need a lift, actually lifts can be a pita.
6) Figure 8-10 hours from the time you take out your tools till the time you put them away. No interruptions... no wife, girlfriend, kids; unless any of the same is willing to hand you the right wrench, grab you a cold beer, etc.,
7) A shop vac (I don't care how much you think your car meets Concours d ' Elegance standards, you will have dirt dropping down, hence.. safety glasses and your favorite baseball hat, no endorsements unless they are Certified Vendors).
8) Patience. A willingness to succeed where others have failed or given up caus they spouses told them its time to stop having fun.
9) Don't forget a new receiver drier, refrigerant oil, consider inspecting the other components before you start (compressor, evap, condensers).
10) Tie wraps and other goodies are included in "you know who's" kits.
PM if you need more info, sorry, can't provide you any hyperlinks to the good stuff or pictures showing how cause that would ruffle the feather of the Vendor Patrol.
PS: to whom ever just did a set of hoses, the trick to the front splash pan removal is to remove it while the car is on the ground: wheely board, allen key, open end, drop it, re-insert allen bolt to hold sway bar straps in place otherwise when you lift the car they move out of position and get to have "fun time" getting the hole to align to the tub; better details in the Instructions provided by (blank)
PPS: some of the vendors paying for sponsorship on this site carry (blank's) hoses.
Last edited by griffiths; 07-04-2014 at 09:04 AM.
07-03-2014, 09:40 PM
#18
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 25
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I just got done with the Job of replacing the hoses.
As griffiths mentioned so well , it can be done DIY. It isn't rocket science, but it's nice to have labels on the hoses, with a diagram and instructions as to waht to expect. Some of us reeally like their 911 and get a bit stressed when things don't have any structure and seem kind of iffy.
When you do the job with the hoses provided by pelican parts, you'll need to know that you need to buy all new clamps as the hoses are a lot smaller and flop around without proper support.
It's a pretty dirty Job (as mentioned above) .
Also The OEM hoses have sleeves that protect them around the engine, (the parts sold by the birdy place do NOT)
If I had the knowledge I have now going into this , I would have bought them from Kuehl . To whom I have no affiliation nor have I ever been in contact with before my experiences today.
What I am writing is just about my frustration with certain employees from Pelican Parts (they called me later and tried to patch things up, but I was busy and couldn't asnwer my phone)
and the crappy support I got from Pelican's supplier.
I am writing this to warn fellow members that even if you are a sponsor , it doesn't mean they sell a superior product.
If I dish out $400 for hoses I want instructions with it and or a Diagram. So i know what goes where.
I want to know what tools I need , and what will be useless after I have done the install.
I am not retarded I can wrench on my cars of which I have 2 BMW 850 , a 911, a Jaguar and a 5/4 ton Military truck . AND I will sure as heck never ever buy not even a screw from Pelican Parts after this today.
As griffiths mentioned so well , it can be done DIY. It isn't rocket science, but it's nice to have labels on the hoses, with a diagram and instructions as to waht to expect. Some of us reeally like their 911 and get a bit stressed when things don't have any structure and seem kind of iffy.
When you do the job with the hoses provided by pelican parts, you'll need to know that you need to buy all new clamps as the hoses are a lot smaller and flop around without proper support.
It's a pretty dirty Job (as mentioned above) .
Also The OEM hoses have sleeves that protect them around the engine, (the parts sold by the birdy place do NOT)
If I had the knowledge I have now going into this , I would have bought them from Kuehl . To whom I have no affiliation nor have I ever been in contact with before my experiences today.
What I am writing is just about my frustration with certain employees from Pelican Parts (they called me later and tried to patch things up, but I was busy and couldn't asnwer my phone)
and the crappy support I got from Pelican's supplier.
I am writing this to warn fellow members that even if you are a sponsor , it doesn't mean they sell a superior product.
If I dish out $400 for hoses I want instructions with it and or a Diagram. So i know what goes where.
I want to know what tools I need , and what will be useless after I have done the install.
I am not retarded I can wrench on my cars of which I have 2 BMW 850 , a 911, a Jaguar and a 5/4 ton Military truck . AND I will sure as heck never ever buy not even a screw from Pelican Parts after this today.
07-04-2014, 11:36 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
I can say is that I too am from the camp, that thinks that replacement parts don't have to come with instructions. We also only have one side of the story with regard to Pelican's service, etc. I've always found them to be pretty responsive if I wasn't happy with something, and even when I screwed up and double ordered during some of my larger projects.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
07-04-2014, 11:59 AM
#20
Team Owner
I can say is that I too am from the camp, that thinks that replacement parts don't have to come with instructions. We also only have one side of the story with regard to Pelican's service, etc. I've always found them to be pretty responsive if I wasn't happy with something, and even when I screwed up and double ordered during some of my larger projects.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
07-04-2014, 12:17 PM
#21
Addict
I forgot about the carpet not having instructions. Wonder how I got through that project myself? I don't recall my rotors, wheel bearings, lug studs, 96-R tail lights, ducktail, H4 headlights and relays, fuel injectors, ICV, engine mounts, flapper boxes, internal thermostat, front oil cooler fan, clubsport valance, fuel lines, or my RSR door card coming with instructions either. Must have been assumed I'd ask you guys or the pelican forum for help if I needed help.
Bottom line is that sure, it sucks to find out rockers have to come off and you have to get under the car and deal with the unexpected, but it is hardly Pelican's fault the OP didn't ask more questions going in. Had he come here and asked before diving in, the threads would have been very different, I assure you.
Bottom line is that sure, it sucks to find out rockers have to come off and you have to get under the car and deal with the unexpected, but it is hardly Pelican's fault the OP didn't ask more questions going in. Had he come here and asked before diving in, the threads would have been very different, I assure you.
07-04-2014, 01:37 PM
#22
Drifting
I can say is that I too am from the camp, that thinks that replacement parts don't have to come with instructions. We also only have one side of the story with regard to Pelican's service, etc. I've always found them to be pretty responsive if I wasn't happy with something, and even when I screwed up and double ordered during some of my larger projects.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
I've bought an awful lot of parts from brakes to suspension to engine, and a carpet set along the way, that didn't come with instructions. If I bought A/C hoses, I'd not expect them there either. I think Scott laid out the procedure I'd use pretty well.
If someone does offer such with their kit, wonderful and all the better.
I've got a whole pile of brake parts waiting to go on the car. Hope I get the rotors, pads and lines on the right ends, they don't have instructions.
I grew up in a farming family, shade tree mechanics all. I don't remember having any farm tractor (Deere, Farmall, Ford Ferguson, Allis Chamlers(?)) or implement, R&R instructions, and the "proper" tools rarely.
With niche products that we, air-cooled Porsche owners, must deal with nowadays I applaud any vendor who takes the time and extra expense to provide instructions for such simplistic efforts.
07-04-2014, 02:20 PM
#23
If you count the number of line items PP sells, the number of suppliers, the number of duplicate items, its very difficult for any retailer to offer 100% coverage in terms of service. And, I imagine the mfg (Ron) is up to ears in work this time of year, at least we are.
I bought a set of door hinge support brackets from PP. The instructions from the mfg were unintelligible, the photo images backwards, you had to place it up to a mirror to ponder it. I called PP and they gave me the mfg's direct line. I called the mfg'r and naturally I got a nice little old lady whom had no clue as to what a door hinge support was but she was very nice to me. I had a choice, return the part to PP which I preferred not to annoy them, or move forward with the install. 2 hours later the job was done and I kinda enjoyed the challenge and figured a few ways to make the product better.
On the flip side there was the time I installed new calibers upside down and just could not figure out why I could not bleed the circuit. They came with no instructions. Fortunately a good friend stopped by, said something to me like "Stupid". We laughed for hours.
Its one thing to buy a "drop in replacement part", its another when the parts you get are not a duplicate of the OE; I know, we get calls from time to time and if I'm not out golfing they usually get quickly resolved.
I get calls from clients from time time that ask us to make pictures larger, change the grammar of a sentence, fix my spelling errors, etc. I welcome the comments and if there is something to fix we try to fix it. When they complain about the price I ask them to return the instructions, don't call our toll free line, buy from the other guys, and call me back when its not lunch hour (only kidding about the lunch hour).
Again, all the rant and comments here are great fodder for the marketeer to digest, and for the reader to either laugh and enjoy or hit arrow down key.
If this site or any other simply had paint by the number instructions it would be quite boring.
I can't wait for Loren to get back from vacation.
Wwest, my Allis Chalmers WD45 came with a shop manual. I had to fight with the goats when I needed it but we worked it out, I just withheld their food ration for a week.
I bought a set of door hinge support brackets from PP. The instructions from the mfg were unintelligible, the photo images backwards, you had to place it up to a mirror to ponder it. I called PP and they gave me the mfg's direct line. I called the mfg'r and naturally I got a nice little old lady whom had no clue as to what a door hinge support was but she was very nice to me. I had a choice, return the part to PP which I preferred not to annoy them, or move forward with the install. 2 hours later the job was done and I kinda enjoyed the challenge and figured a few ways to make the product better.
On the flip side there was the time I installed new calibers upside down and just could not figure out why I could not bleed the circuit. They came with no instructions. Fortunately a good friend stopped by, said something to me like "Stupid". We laughed for hours.
Its one thing to buy a "drop in replacement part", its another when the parts you get are not a duplicate of the OE; I know, we get calls from time to time and if I'm not out golfing they usually get quickly resolved.
I get calls from clients from time time that ask us to make pictures larger, change the grammar of a sentence, fix my spelling errors, etc. I welcome the comments and if there is something to fix we try to fix it. When they complain about the price I ask them to return the instructions, don't call our toll free line, buy from the other guys, and call me back when its not lunch hour (only kidding about the lunch hour).
Again, all the rant and comments here are great fodder for the marketeer to digest, and for the reader to either laugh and enjoy or hit arrow down key.
If this site or any other simply had paint by the number instructions it would be quite boring.
I can't wait for Loren to get back from vacation.
Wwest, my Allis Chalmers WD45 came with a shop manual. I had to fight with the goats when I needed it but we worked it out, I just withheld their food ration for a week.
07-04-2014, 03:47 PM
#24
Addict
While we are on the subject I saw a thread from many years ago where cores were placed behind either rear wheel. Someone commented that it seemed rather pointless to have one so close to the cat. I think, I and I could be wrong (that never happens 
), but what about wrapping the cat or putting in some sort of barrier or shield? Do you have any up to date photos of such an install?
Ultimately, my wife and I would like to ship our car to Europe and tour around for a month for our 25th wedding anniversary (about a year out). If we do that, the car is going to have to be as comfortable as possible, and that would include putting all the A/C back in the car. May as well go full retard and make it usable here in Southern California. Any thoughts?
I've just returned from one fun drive up to where my avatar photo was taken. It's freakin' hot out.
), but what about wrapping the cat or putting in some sort of barrier or shield? Do you have any up to date photos of such an install?Ultimately, my wife and I would like to ship our car to Europe and tour around for a month for our 25th wedding anniversary (about a year out). If we do that, the car is going to have to be as comfortable as possible, and that would include putting all the A/C back in the car. May as well go full retard and make it usable here in Southern California. Any thoughts?
I've just returned from one fun drive up to where my avatar photo was taken. It's freakin' hot out.
07-04-2014, 05:03 PM
#25
Yes, I've answered quite a few posts or questions about locating the condenser in the LH rear fender .... with respect to the Cat. It's a good question however the Cat is not really in a direct line of site (radiant energy) with the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser.
We started the Kuehl Fender Condenser product line over 10 years ago. We have well over 500 units out in the field, installed by DIY's and professional shops, and we have not toasted one yet nor have we had any issues with radiant heat. The proof is in the pudding you could say as the end result is lower system pressures, less heat being dumped in the engine by the deck lid condenser because the Kuehl Fender Condenser is taking quite a load of BTU's out of the system and dumps it outside, sooo... your end result is lower vent temperatures, lower cockpit temperatures, compressor's last longer, and your engine does not get overloaded with condenser heat on hot days.
And, there are no issues with stone hits because the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser rests on top of the lower valance brackets (stones typically travel below), we have a Stone Guard for good measure, and the 12" fan has its own stone guard.
Airflow is taken from along side the outer fender, pushed through the serpentine coil, a rubber baffle on top directs air downward on the other side and there is a baffle on the bottom that reduces backwash.
Pictures below show :
The open pocket behind the tire.
A heat shield for the hoses.
Unit installed.
And final installation.
When the car is on the ground and the tire is installed you really can't see it, and it mostly a noninvasive install/design, meaning if for some reason down the road you want to remove the unit you'd never know it was there, almost a "bolt on bolt off" concept.
We sell the unit as a "base package", meaning a complete barrier hose set, drier, orings, low-high pressure switch, R134a conversion kit, mechanical and electrical hardware, "Step by Step Installation Instructions", tie-wraps, etc. etc. ... A TURN KEY package so you don't have to visit Home Deposit (ooops, are they are Certified Vendor here?) for misc stuff. We call it a "base package" because if you purchase it you might also wish to add on other things at a discount, such as upgraded Kuehl brand: Evaporator, Vents, Front Condenser, Hurricane Blower Motor, Variable Speed Evap Fan Controller, etc... on and on. What you add or the combination of products is determined by factors such as your driving climate, car color, number of passengers, your metabolism rate, etc..., You tell us the basics about you and your car and we recommend what you need. Kinda like when you were purchasing that Chevy back a the dealership in the good old days: do your want posi-rear, full gauges, custom color and so forth. You are getting a customized AC upgrade designed for you, rather going to some website and guessing what to buy or buying things you might not need or not knowing what you really need.
You can walk through the process of finding out what you need here:
The Mr. Ice Question Form,
or if you want to discover what other clients feel about the product line you could read customer comments here:
Customer Comments
for example, this past week we helped out a chap in Dhabi,UAE, temperatures there run above 100F constantly, his car was a rare 911 3.2 by Ruf. He's happy now.
A few years back Excellence did a 2 month publication release on the Kuehl System, and its been installed by quite a few motor guys as well, and I believe Singer has used a few
of our products in their designs.
Done, The End! Time to go golfing.
I almost forgot ... EACH HOSE FITS THE CAR PERFECTLY AND EACH HOSE HAS A LABEL AT EACH END .. JUST IN CASE YOU FORGET.
We started the Kuehl Fender Condenser product line over 10 years ago. We have well over 500 units out in the field, installed by DIY's and professional shops, and we have not toasted one yet nor have we had any issues with radiant heat. The proof is in the pudding you could say as the end result is lower system pressures, less heat being dumped in the engine by the deck lid condenser because the Kuehl Fender Condenser is taking quite a load of BTU's out of the system and dumps it outside, sooo... your end result is lower vent temperatures, lower cockpit temperatures, compressor's last longer, and your engine does not get overloaded with condenser heat on hot days.
And, there are no issues with stone hits because the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser rests on top of the lower valance brackets (stones typically travel below), we have a Stone Guard for good measure, and the 12" fan has its own stone guard.
Airflow is taken from along side the outer fender, pushed through the serpentine coil, a rubber baffle on top directs air downward on the other side and there is a baffle on the bottom that reduces backwash.
Pictures below show :
The open pocket behind the tire.
A heat shield for the hoses.
Unit installed.
And final installation.
When the car is on the ground and the tire is installed you really can't see it, and it mostly a noninvasive install/design, meaning if for some reason down the road you want to remove the unit you'd never know it was there, almost a "bolt on bolt off" concept.
We sell the unit as a "base package", meaning a complete barrier hose set, drier, orings, low-high pressure switch, R134a conversion kit, mechanical and electrical hardware, "Step by Step Installation Instructions", tie-wraps, etc. etc. ... A TURN KEY package so you don't have to visit Home Deposit (ooops, are they are Certified Vendor here?) for misc stuff. We call it a "base package" because if you purchase it you might also wish to add on other things at a discount, such as upgraded Kuehl brand: Evaporator, Vents, Front Condenser, Hurricane Blower Motor, Variable Speed Evap Fan Controller, etc... on and on. What you add or the combination of products is determined by factors such as your driving climate, car color, number of passengers, your metabolism rate, etc..., You tell us the basics about you and your car and we recommend what you need. Kinda like when you were purchasing that Chevy back a the dealership in the good old days: do your want posi-rear, full gauges, custom color and so forth. You are getting a customized AC upgrade designed for you, rather going to some website and guessing what to buy or buying things you might not need or not knowing what you really need.
You can walk through the process of finding out what you need here:
The Mr. Ice Question Form,
or if you want to discover what other clients feel about the product line you could read customer comments here:
Customer Comments
for example, this past week we helped out a chap in Dhabi,UAE, temperatures there run above 100F constantly, his car was a rare 911 3.2 by Ruf. He's happy now.
A few years back Excellence did a 2 month publication release on the Kuehl System, and its been installed by quite a few motor guys as well, and I believe Singer has used a few
of our products in their designs.
Done, The End! Time to go golfing.
I almost forgot ... EACH HOSE FITS THE CAR PERFECTLY AND EACH HOSE HAS A LABEL AT EACH END .. JUST IN CASE YOU FORGET.
Last edited by griffiths; 07-04-2014 at 05:23 PM.
07-04-2014, 06:07 PM
#26
Addict
For me the perfect "add-on" location for additional condensers would be the left front fender where the stock windshield water bottle was. Lot's of room there. Could probably fit two of your 12" units there.
My rear tires are so sticky that you would think I drive exclusively on a gravel road. Rocks build up behind my lights. I've never seen a 911 cat with the original shield on it. I long since patched the front fan hole and deleted the impact par too. Would hate to put all that crap back on especially at sub-euro ride height.
Interesting food for though. Do you think 2 of your 12" units equals one of the stock front condensers?
My rear tires are so sticky that you would think I drive exclusively on a gravel road. Rocks build up behind my lights. I've never seen a 911 cat with the original shield on it. I long since patched the front fan hole and deleted the impact par too. Would hate to put all that crap back on especially at sub-euro ride height.
Interesting food for though. Do you think 2 of your 12" units equals one of the stock front condensers?
07-04-2014, 08:28 PM
#28
Drifting
While we are on the subject I saw a thread from many years ago where cores were placed behind either rear wheel. Someone commented that it seemed rather pointless to have one so close to the cat. I think, I and I could be wrong (that never happens ), but what about wrapping the cat or putting in some sort of barrier or shield? Do you have any up to date photos of such an install?
Ultimately, my wife and I would like to ship our car to Europe and tour around for a month for our 25th wedding anniversary (about a year out). If we do that, the car is going to have to be as comfortable as possible, and that would include putting all the A/C back in the car. May as well go full retard and make it usable here in Southern California. Any thoughts?
I've just returned from one fun drive up to where my avatar photo was taken. It's freakin' hot out.
), but what about wrapping the cat or putting in some sort of barrier or shield? Do you have any up to date photos of such an install?Ultimately, my wife and I would like to ship our car to Europe and tour around for a month for our 25th wedding anniversary (about a year out). If we do that, the car is going to have to be as comfortable as possible, and that would include putting all the A/C back in the car. May as well go full retard and make it usable here in Southern California. Any thoughts?
I've just returned from one fun drive up to where my avatar photo was taken. It's freakin' hot out.
Right at this moment a new Targa would undoubtedly fill the bill.
07-04-2014, 08:59 PM
#29
Drifting
Yes, I've answered quite a few posts or questions about locating the condenser in the LH rear fender .... with respect to the Cat.
It's a good question however the Cat is not really in a direct line of site (radiant energy) with the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser.
Sorry, Charlie, that's like saying the earth is not really in a direct line of sight (Radiant energy) with the sun. Think about why Porsche saw the need to shield the rear brake rotor from the Cat HEAT.
We started the Kuehl Fender Condenser product line over 10 years ago. We have well over 500 units out in the field, installed by DIY's and professional shops, and we have not toasted one yet
nor have we had any issues with radiant heat.
How do you know, tested with and without...? You might well find your rear fender mounted condenser/fan's efficiency improves by a respectable margin with addition of a heat shield.
The proof is in the pudding you could say as the end result is lower system pressures, less heat being dumped in the engine by the deck lid condenser because the Kuehl Fender Condenser is taking quite a load of BTU's out of the system and dumps it outside, sooo... your end result is lower vent temperatures, lower cockpit temperatures, compressor's last longer, and your engine does not get overloaded with condenser heat on hot days.
And, there are no issues with stone hits because the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser rests on top of the lower valance brackets (stones typically travel below), we have a Stone Guard for good measure, and the 12" fan has its own stone guard.
Airflow is taken from along side the outer fender, pushed through the serpentine coil, a rubber baffle on top directs air downward on the other side and there is a baffle on the bottom that reduces backwash.
Pictures below show :
The open pocket behind the tire.
A heat shield for the hoses.
Unit installed.
And final installation.
When the car is on the ground and the tire is installed you really can't see it, and it mostly a noninvasive install/design, meaning if for some reason down the road you want to remove the unit you'd never know it was there, almost a "bolt on bolt off" concept.
We sell the unit as a "base package", meaning a complete barrier hose set, drier, orings, low-high pressure switch,
Why not a "trinary" pressure switch, the third element to activate the fan only as needed. Otherwise how do you control the fan?[ Relay off the compressor clutch power isn't fully adequate since refrigerant pressure can remain HIGH even post compressor cycling off.
R134a conversion kit, mechanical and electrical hardware, "Step by Step Installation Instructions", tie-wraps, etc. etc. ... A TURN KEY package so you don't have to visit Home Deposit (ooops, are they are Certified Vendor here?) for misc stuff. We call it a "base package" because if you purchase it you might also wish to add on other things at a discount, such as upgraded Kuehl brand: Evaporator, Vents, Front Condenser, Hurricane Blower Motor, Variable Speed Evap Fan Controller, etc... on and on. What you add or the combination of products is determined by factors such as your driving climate, car color, number of passengers, your metabolism rate, etc..., You tell us the basics about you and your car and we recommend what you need. Kinda like when you were purchasing that Chevy back a the dealership in the good old days: do your want posi-rear, full gauges, custom color and so forth. You are getting a customized AC upgrade designed for you, rather going to some website and guessing what to buy or buying things you might not need or not knowing what you really need.
You can walk through the process of finding out what you need here:
The Mr. Ice Question Form,
or if you want to discover what other clients feel about the product line you could read customer comments here:
Customer Comments
for example, this past week we helped out a chap in Dhabi,UAE, temperatures there run above 100F constantly, his car was a rare 911 3.2 by Ruf. He's happy now.
A few years back Excellence did a 2 month publication release on the Kuehl System, and its been installed by quite a few motor guys as well, and I believe Singer has used a few
of our products in their designs.
Done, The End! Time to go golfing.
I almost forgot ... EACH HOSE FITS THE CAR PERFECTLY AND EACH HOSE HAS A LABEL AT EACH END .. JUST IN CASE YOU FORGET.
It's a good question however the Cat is not really in a direct line of site (radiant energy) with the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser.
Sorry, Charlie, that's like saying the earth is not really in a direct line of sight (Radiant energy) with the sun. Think about why Porsche saw the need to shield the rear brake rotor from the Cat HEAT.
We started the Kuehl Fender Condenser product line over 10 years ago. We have well over 500 units out in the field, installed by DIY's and professional shops, and we have not toasted one yet
nor have we had any issues with radiant heat.
How do you know, tested with and without...? You might well find your rear fender mounted condenser/fan's efficiency improves by a respectable margin with addition of a heat shield.
The proof is in the pudding you could say as the end result is lower system pressures, less heat being dumped in the engine by the deck lid condenser because the Kuehl Fender Condenser is taking quite a load of BTU's out of the system and dumps it outside, sooo... your end result is lower vent temperatures, lower cockpit temperatures, compressor's last longer, and your engine does not get overloaded with condenser heat on hot days.
And, there are no issues with stone hits because the Rearward Kuehl Fender Condenser rests on top of the lower valance brackets (stones typically travel below), we have a Stone Guard for good measure, and the 12" fan has its own stone guard.
Airflow is taken from along side the outer fender, pushed through the serpentine coil, a rubber baffle on top directs air downward on the other side and there is a baffle on the bottom that reduces backwash.
Pictures below show :
The open pocket behind the tire.
A heat shield for the hoses.
Unit installed.
And final installation.
When the car is on the ground and the tire is installed you really can't see it, and it mostly a noninvasive install/design, meaning if for some reason down the road you want to remove the unit you'd never know it was there, almost a "bolt on bolt off" concept.
We sell the unit as a "base package", meaning a complete barrier hose set, drier, orings, low-high pressure switch,
Why not a "trinary" pressure switch, the third element to activate the fan only as needed. Otherwise how do you control the fan?[ Relay off the compressor clutch power isn't fully adequate since refrigerant pressure can remain HIGH even post compressor cycling off.
R134a conversion kit, mechanical and electrical hardware, "Step by Step Installation Instructions", tie-wraps, etc. etc. ... A TURN KEY package so you don't have to visit Home Deposit (ooops, are they are Certified Vendor here?) for misc stuff. We call it a "base package" because if you purchase it you might also wish to add on other things at a discount, such as upgraded Kuehl brand: Evaporator, Vents, Front Condenser, Hurricane Blower Motor, Variable Speed Evap Fan Controller, etc... on and on. What you add or the combination of products is determined by factors such as your driving climate, car color, number of passengers, your metabolism rate, etc..., You tell us the basics about you and your car and we recommend what you need. Kinda like when you were purchasing that Chevy back a the dealership in the good old days: do your want posi-rear, full gauges, custom color and so forth. You are getting a customized AC upgrade designed for you, rather going to some website and guessing what to buy or buying things you might not need or not knowing what you really need.
You can walk through the process of finding out what you need here:
The Mr. Ice Question Form,
or if you want to discover what other clients feel about the product line you could read customer comments here:
Customer Comments
for example, this past week we helped out a chap in Dhabi,UAE, temperatures there run above 100F constantly, his car was a rare 911 3.2 by Ruf. He's happy now.
A few years back Excellence did a 2 month publication release on the Kuehl System, and its been installed by quite a few motor guys as well, and I believe Singer has used a few
of our products in their designs.
Done, The End! Time to go golfing.
I almost forgot ... EACH HOSE FITS THE CAR PERFECTLY AND EACH HOSE HAS A LABEL AT EACH END .. JUST IN CASE YOU FORGET.
What pressure sensor do you use/recommend, what is its high pressure cutoff point? The Red DOT I have recommended opens the compressor circuit at 325 PSI.
07-04-2014, 09:05 PM
#30
Addict
A new Porsche would take it from an "I could save up say $10,000 if it was for that kind of trip" that my wife would have no issues with, to a "Are You Out Of Your Mind" kinda trip she would want nothing to do with.