RatPack

Howdy,
In the past I’ve owned a 58’ 356, 76’ 924 and built a Speedster kit. I’ve decided I’d like to try “The Real Thing” and have been looking for a 911. I’ve found one in the configuration I want about 2 miles from me. It's an 85’ Targa, NA, Steel Slant Nose (conversion done by Porsche). I’ve been told (have not seen it in person yet), Original Owner, 130K, Excellent condition, recent Valves, guides, Rings and clutch. Meticulously maintained, always garaged and covered. Selling it because they are buying a new Porsche. The Wife didn’t know all the specifics but said her husband has ALL the receipts and "It looks like a brand new car". The asking price… (a bit high for the miles?) …$25,000. I have read several buyers’ guides and if I like what I see (hehe) I’ll have a PPI done and maybe make an offer. In the mean time, What do you think and what would a reasonable offering price be?
Thanks
Gary

Jay H

I'll take a stab at it...

If it's a factory slant nose conversion, that could add several thousand dollars to the resale value. But, being a slant Targa, the potential buyer pool could be somewhat limited. Targas seem to stay on the market just a bit longer than coupes and cabs and being a slant is not everyone's cup of tea. Just things to consider from a resale value. This doesn't mean it's not a nice 911 though.

130,000 miles and $25,000 doesn't seem to be too good of a match even with full records and a new clutch (but how new is that clutch...?). That seems like a $15,000 to $19,000 car depending on it's condition and what it all needs. It could go to the very low $20k range if it's pristine, but, very low mileage cars (30,000 to 50,000 mile cars) tend to be priced in the mid $20k range. If he's stuck on $25k, I'd move on. If it's THE car for you and you love the slant and targa combination, then again, it might be worth more to you than what other's think.

Good luck,

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

2002M3Drew

With these cars, I don't think you can get too hung up on what is the right price, especially when you are talking about a car with a rare features such as this slope nosed car. If you pass on this car and find another that is not your ideal configuration, but a bit less in money, ask yourself what it would take to convert another car (or whatever you woud need to do to make it ideal). If it really speaks to you and $25K is a take it or leave it price, then you just have to decide if having that exact car is worth it to you. Who cares what books say?

Gary R.

An 85 Targa with 130K miles is in the $14-15K range TOPS IMO, and there is no way the slantnose "conversion" adds $10K to it. If you really want a slantnose and a Targa (plan on it leaking) then I guess you could offer $18K and see what happens.

Remember it's just my opinion!

racer

If it is an original owner car, ask for the option codes/copy of the window sticker. An N/A steel slantnose targa is an incredibly rare combination. A TURBO targa slant nose would have MSRP's for about $100,000. I would guess the MSRP for an NA would have been close to 80K. Even if you don't buy it, check it out, see how you like it and let everyone else know so they can put in an offer when you don't

RacingBeat

original owner is always a plus!!

RatPack

I was finally able to get together with the owner on Thursday and take a good look at this car. I wouldn’t say “it looks like a new car”, but it does look very good. Could use a good detailing and maybe new carpet. A couple little dents on the driver door. The paint is good with a few chips that have been touched up. The hood doesn’t want to stay open and could fit a bit better. No rust anywhere. It does not appear to have been in an accident. The suspension is tight; new shocks, grommets and rubber underneath look good. No oil leaks at all. It started well on the first click with no smoke. The idle was a bit unstable, up and down. The owner said “Cold fuel injection” was the reason for it’s idle. It did smooth out as it warmed up. The oil gauges were a bit bouncy, but settled down as well. I took it for a drive and was very pleased with its’ responsiveness. The transmission was a bit difficult to get into second gear. It went in OK, but I had to make an extra effort to get it in all the way. The other gears were fine, up and down. It had a bit of a wobble in the wheel like a tire balancing was needed. Additionally, the owner said it would be fine to have a PPI done by my mechanic and gave me the phone number to his, a local indie Porsche specialist. I left telling him his price ($25,000) was more than I wanted to spend. He countered with something about how great the condition is. Too bad, it IS exactly what I am looking for. I still may make an offer, pending a PPI, but he seemed to be pretty set on his price.

...and thanks, for your input.

Jay H

$25k for a car that needs new carpets, front end work (tire balance, tie rod ends or ball joints), has bad gaps, weak second gear snycro, idle issue, etc, etc, etc???

Nope. Walk away. For $25k the car should be perfect.

Jay H

I'm going to comment on the original owner concept... Please, no one take offense, but here's my thoughts on original owner cars since I bought two 3.2 Carreras, one from it's original owner and the second one that was owned by it's first owner for 20 years.

My first 911 was an '86 coupe that I got from it's original owner when it was 10 years old and had 91,000 miles. Bought in Milwaukee, serviced by one mechanic, full records, etc. However, he would leave this car in his horse barn when not in use and drove it year round in the salt and snow. The interior was nice for it's age, but the exterior was not. It was rusting, had been neglected mechanically for 2+ years, and all the lower body work was crashed in one way or another.

So, that car was relatively cheap to buy, but cost me a bit to get it back up to snuff mechanically and would have been very costly to remove the rust and get the bodywork done to get it up to almost show car status.

I just picked up an '84 3.2. The first owner had it for 20 years. He ordered it in custom brown over cashmere and brown carpet. The full records show it was waxed twice a year and it received good attention during it's first 15 years or so. However, he lost interest in it, let it sit outside and the paint was severely damaged. He sold it to it's second owner in 2005 and the 2nd owner fixed a lot of mechanical issues that had been neglected. The car didn't run well at that point. Now, I have it with decent mechanicals and after spending $900 on paint repair, it's presentable, but not perfect.

So, both of these examples show that "One Owner" isn't all it's cracked up to be. If that first owner is an idiot or doesn't care, the car can be a rat. I've seen 6 owner cars that look perfect. Yes, one owner cars can be nice for finding out the cars full history from the person who bought it new, but it's not a guaranty that the car is a good car.

Just some food for thought on what I've seen over the years. No flames intended to Racing Beat or any other one owner car people.

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

gerry100

Just a comment on Racer's post.

Sticker for my '86 3.2 coupe was about $40K, with a few common options. Can't imagine a Slant Targa being much past $50K original sticker price.

Jay H

I hate to beat up on this poor slant Targa and/or it's owner.

But, time and time again, we read the same thing from newbie type buyers such as RatPack. "Hood won't stay open". That obviously is something that people who are buying 911's notice and our poster RatPack is noticing it and it's affecting what he thinks of this car (though most likely in a very minor way, but it's still a flaw). I know I notice that stuff when I looked at used 911's.

New hood shocks for a 3.2 Carrera are what, $7-$15 a piece?? I can see if you own the car and don't care to replace them, but if you are selling the car, is it too much to spend $20 to $30 replacing some pretty easy DIY parts to get rid of such a very noticeable flaw (though very minor) on these cars for sale?

This guy wants $25k for a car with 130k on the clock, yet he can't replace cheap hood shocks...? What else was overlooked? Why not present the car in the best possible manner, especially if you are asking a premium price?

Sorry, maybe I'm just too detail oriented and I'll stop foaming at the mouth now.

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

UDPride

Jay you make perfect sense. Look at all the cars on Ebay. Looks like they havent been vacuumed or detailed in a year. You shouldnt see a piece of lint on the carpets when you sell a car. How freakin hard is it to take a shop vac and spend 2hrs vacuuming a car and throwing some lexol on the seats and wiping off the shoe marks on the map pockets.

Jay H

Bingo. Exactly what I think too UD.

[rant on]

2-3 hours doing simple detailing really helps market a car. You don't need to prep it for a full concours, just vac the dirt, Armor All the dash, dress the tires (I'll say it again - PUT SOME SHINY STUFF FROM K-MART THAT YOU CAN GET FOR $1.29 A CAN ON THE TIRES) and wax the car with even cheapo wax and you're 99% there. Man, that helps a ton just to do simple cleaning and detailing.

[/rant off]

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

UDPride

Yeah yeah! When I sold my WRX I didnt want to put the "good" stuff on it so I went to Pep Boys and bought some Armor All for $2.99 and A-A'd the crap out of that car so it shined like the sun. What did I care? In two weeks it wouldnt be my car anymore.

I bet 9 out of 10 ebay cars I look at would sell for 10-12% more if they spent a weekend cleaning it on the inside and throwing some Turtle Wax from KMart on the outside on it.

My BIG pet peeve is stained or discolored floor mats. Jesus H, it takes 90 minutes to get a scrubber and shampoo those damn things back to new. What is the problem? Skanky floor mats would make a new Bentley look like a turd. And if you cant get em clean, spend $85 and buy a new set. Mint looking floor mats make people thinik you "tread lightly" on the car.

I dont even let people on my floor mats I throw those plastic mat cover dudes over them so I dont have to clean them every other week.

If I see nasty looking floor mats I just wonder what else on the car the owner decided wasnt worth keeping nice and new. Because any owner can keep floor mats clean, even a non-wrench-turner like me. Brush, shampoo, elbow grease.

Back to the car though, a narrow bodied factory slant is pretty rare indeed, but I see one frequently at the car shows I attend. The funny thing is I dont think the owner really knows exactly what kind of a rare piece he has. Throw in the fact that this one in the thread is a targa and you are in rare air. Might turn some people off but if its indeed a Special Wish job, you can feel better throwing money at it. That said, the car still needs to pass mechanical inspection. Being rare cant trump badly running and poorly kept by its lonesome. Even being a slant, it will never pull the same money as a widebody. People want the turbo flares and nothings going to come between that. And it will never pull the same dough as a turbo slant for the same reason. So I think the seller could wait it out and find the right buyer at closer to $20K rather than $25K. You just arent gonna get the same resale value mileage on an NA slant as a turbo slant -- even though there may actually be fewer factory NA slants in existence (very likely). Ive only seen one factory NA slant ever and Ive been all over. See mention above. Seen a ton of aftermarket NA slants though.

Never seen a factory NA targa slant. Just for ****s n grins Id like to see a photo if you can post one. Id want a PCNA CofA to see an option code or Special Wish mention to verify this as a factory slant before Id offer any jing.

Very interesting car though.

phiba

I think the deal is that if you are selling a car, by definition you have lost interest in it already. So you are much less likely to do any detailing than the new buyer. As the buyer, use the hood shocks, lint, and old wax job to negotiate a discounted price. Then invest the minor bucks and easy labor to polish up your new baby as soon as you get it home. That's what I did...