OneNineElevenGuy

My 1982 911SC, 3.0, with 82,000 miles on it, which I have owned for about 6 months now is in need of open heart surgery. This is not helping out my first Porsche experience

I have one broken head stud on #6 and a suspect stud on #1. Seems that they corroded, and broke. The car was originally from North Carolina.

My independant mechanic quoted me between $2,500 and $3,000 for the job assuming there were no hidden surprises <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Does this sound like a fair price for this job?

He is also wanting to use the Dilivar stud, and replace all 12 on the bottom at the same time.

I agree with replacing the 12 on the bottom, but should the 12 on the top be replaced too?

The 101 Project book suggests using steel on the bottom and avoid the Dilivar altogether. Comments

Are there any other things that could be or should be done while he has my babys heart in his hands? She already has the Carrera tensioner upgrade.

Thanks in advance for the input.

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John Adams

$3,000 sounds about right to have it done. As far as the top row studs, if they look good they can be reused. As far as the bottom row, the new dilivar studs may have a different corroision protection layer than what the original ones had? I went with steel based on a recomendation from John Walker.

Ed Bighi

Anywhere from 3 to 4 thousand sounds about right. Shouldn't be any more unless there is some other big problems with the motor. I just got my 88 done this week. One stud broke one hour after I bought the car. It is usual for that to happen to me. It isn't so much bad luck but more the fact that even though I baby my cars, I do not baby motors. You see, two hours after I bought that car, I had been doing a steady 110-140 for an hour. I just slowed down to 100 for the rest of the two day trip. It cost me less than 4K for the job. We left the top row of steel studs since they looked plenty good. Besides, the top studs generally don't break. As for the bottom, we went with the latest 993 micro encapsulated head studs. My mechanic hasn't had any trouble with any 993 spec studs and I wanted to give them a try. It runs great now.

Don't feel bad about your SC. The same thing happened right after I bought my SC also. I just bit the bullet, got it done and never looked back. At the time, we put in new studs, some rings along with exhauxt valve guides. The rings were actually very good, but what the heck. Well, that was ten years ago when the car had 140,000 miles. It has about 220 now, which includes 8 years of running on the track. It still runs like a top while putting out good numers including more hp than it should. No other car could have taken 8 years of track under my right foot. None. I know that for a fact. I should also mention that it has never had to be towed in ten years.

The lesson here is don't buy a 911 for the short term. And also, the 911 isn't for the average Joe who finances a 30 or 40 something thousand dollar car and does not have more than 2K in the bank. It is a car that favors cash people. Tell that to others that ask you about 911's. Buy it for a decade and you will find that the money spent on fixing head studs is a small price to pay compared to the overall ownership experience. That experience includes driving an ageless car that does not depreciate or get boring. You can't beat that. If dilavar studs weren't used on the SC's and Carreras from the beginning though, I would be even happier.
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Sonic dB

If there is no damage to the engine....why is replacing head studs so damn expensive? I mean...3-4K is a lot of money for just about anyone.

What is so difficult about this proceedure that makes it cost so much? anyone?

I fear 3 things in life:

taxes, painful death and broken head studs

John Adams

It's very labor intensive that's why it's so expensive. The engine has to be removed and dismantled down to the case. There are some special tools required to do the job, oxygen acetylene torches, camshaft crowsfoot socket, chamshaft holding tool, dial indicator, and knowledge.

hoosierdaddy

Why would you want to reuse old parts for such a labor intense job ? You would run the risk of a problem from one of the old studs and have to go thru the same process again.
Jim

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi:

Ed Bighi & John Adams offered some excellent and sage advice and commentary. I totally concur with these gentlemen.

This is rather common problem with SC's and especially ones from moist climates. Globally speaking, this is the worst thing that afflicted the SC, and aside from the propensity for broken Dilivar studs, these engines are arguably the most durable ones Porsche ever built.

I would simply go forward and replace all 24 studs with 993 ones, reseal the engine with a high-quality gasket kit using as many Viton seals and o-rings as appropriate, and enjoy your car for many thousands of miles.

Porschephanatic

OneNineElevenGuy,
I have to agree w/ Ed, and I'm into my 911 for the long term. What started out as a clutch replacement job for me turned into a rebuilt tranny and a head stud replacement job as well. $8.5k later I have a leak-free motor/tranny that runs and shifts like new, w/ my reliability worries left behind. My $.02

jlkline

I echo Steve. 993 studs are the way to go, not dilavar. Even Bruce Anderson has moved away from recommending these studs.

BTW, the repair cost sounds right to me as well, maybe even a little lower that what I would expect.

pjc

Try looking at new Dempsey book on rebuilding 911 engines - he explains in detail what the problem are, the fixes and the likely costs (in $). Alternative to steel studs (but twice the price) are the Race Ware studs.

PJC

Perkins

i understand that low mileage SC's tend to be afflicted with this problem - as higher mileage examples obviously generate more heat during their lifespan - which helps prevent the studs from corroding. ironic, but apparently true.

my SC has 77K miles - but am apparently pretty lucky thus far.

good luck to you and let us know how it goes..

Maurice
1980 SC Coupe

Tom F

Take heart. I know of an otherwise perfect '87 Carrera with 18,000 miles, which has always been pampered (e.g., garaged in Palm Beach), and which also has a broken head stud. This car is as new underneath, so I doubt there is a corrosion issue. The story I heard is that there were quality control issues with the heat treating on the dilavar studs.

Then, there is my '83 SC Euro (930/10 motor) with 75,000 miles, which sat outdoors, without a cover, for two years including two winters of heavy snow. (Prior owner lost his garage in a divorce.) All the studs are intact, original, shiny type. Anyway, these instances makes clear that the problem is a randomly occurring one to some extent.

Everything said so far in this thread rings true. The only point of advice I would add is that there seems to be some distance that you can drive these cars with one or two broken studs. I don't know how far that is. Maybe, someone would weigh in with an informed opinion.

I've had broken or pulled studs on two previous 911 motors. I saw heads and cylinders damaged in the pulled stud situation, but not in the broken stud situation, I drove the car with broken studs some thousands of miles before I fixed it, and the heads and cylinders were fine.

John Adams

Driving with broken head studs is not a good idea and can damage the cylinder head surface were it mates to the top sealing edge of the cylinder over time. Also, there is a lot more stress put on the remaining three head studs. Maybe if you baby the car you can continue to drive it for a while but what kind of fun would that be. Bite the bullet and get it fixed.

OneNineElevenGuy

Gentleman,
Thanks for all of your sound advice. It is a true keeper for me and I want to enjoy the car for many a year. My wife, God love her, was first to suggest just get it in there and have it repaired. The summer will be gone before we know it and we don't want to miss out on all that great drive time. We are intending to take the car out to Ventura CA for the German AutoFest this September.

The car is going into the shop today. I am going with the 993 studs. I am also going to take this opportunity to get the wheels refinished while she is laid up at the Porsche spa.

Again, thanks for the advice, understanding, and direction.

Waiting to get it back.