tone40

I have always wanted to own a 911. Now I am ready to take the plunge. I already have a Boxster S. I intend to keep it.

I have driven a few SCs and did not like the 915 transmission & clutch style. However, the engine sound was intoxicating. Just not for me.

I have driven a few late 80's Carreras. The G50 fits me better. One was an '88 with 18" Carrera wheels & offsets that had a real harsh ride and darty straight line tracking. I also drove an '89. This car had low mileage (~58K), very minimal leaks, well kept interior & exterior. The engine, trans. and steering performed well. New clutch at 45K, maintenance records & TSB updates. My biggest complaint is the price (high 20's). A low speed U-turn took a bit of effort, but that comes with the territory of no power steering.

I have not driven a 993 or 964 yet. I plan to check one out and drive it early this week (a '94 964). The price is about $5K less than the '89. The seller says that it has an oil leak (1 qt./2 months) and about 90K miles. No clutch, engine or trans. work. Maintained by a private shop and records are available. It is advertised as clean inside and out. If the leak is from the cam cover or valve cover, are they expensive to repair?

I hope to use it for some autocross and DE events. Plus limited daily driving.

As I understand it, the 964 has rear coil over shock and multi link suspension. Will the 964 be a much better car for my intended purchase?

The '89 ran very well. Maybe too clean to put on a track? Is it not a good long term choice because of the "banana" rear suspension design & torsion bars?

Which would be the better buy and more reliable?

Should I try a 993 as well? I have been warned that this generation is much more costly to maintain.

TIA.

Auto_Werks 3.6

You should definitely try the 993, as it sounds like it will probably be your best fit after reading your responses to the older cars. It seems like the 964 cars are starting to get the reputation of being some of the dark days of the 911 (whether it deserves it or not, I don't know). I don't care what anyone might say, leaking a quart of oil every two months is a LOT. That is 1/4 quart per week. I can only imagine what that puddle must look like. More likely it uses a lot of oil, and has some leaks as well, either way, it sounds shady to me. The older torsion bar 911's are a special breed, and they are a challange to drive. If you do not like to be engaged by your car, you probably should steer clear of them, as you do have to pay attention. That being said, I have driven several of the various different 911's and I can honestly say that I like the way my SC feels much more than the 996 that I drove. But that is me, and I am crazy enough to enjoy my 915 transmission and manual steering. From your post it honestly sounds like you need a 993. Good luck with your shopping!

Giantman

Then again if you are looking at 993's why not check out some of the early 996's which are comparatively priced? Same modern feeling as the Boxter as well as all the creature comforts you have become accustomed to!

Simon.

d993

If you plan on staying virtually stock, no major mods.........go with the 993.
It's the most "complete" 911 in my opinion.

theiceman

.. he already has a boxster ..

2002M3Drew

What is a "bananna" rear suspension? I have never heard the suspension on the Carerras referred to that way. I'd agree with you on the price of that '89...too darned high. Once you track it a bit and put a few miles on, the cache of a low mile G50 car is gone, and so is $10,000 of its value. I passed on one of those as well when I was looking.

You really need to drive a bunch of these cars to establish good baselines. They are such different animals from anythhing else out there (including any water cooled Porsches) that you need to get a feel for them before passing judgement. That said, from your description of what you are looking for, I'd say look strongly at any 964 coupes you come across. Those cars have more refinement and more power, but are still engaging to drive on the track. Plus, they can be had in the very high teens to low twenties.

tone40

As I remember from viewing the underside of the '89, the description seemed to fit.

If I got a 911, it would be an air cooled. As iceman said, I already have a water pumper. I want to get a legendary car. Who needs cold A/C, right?

I will also drive a 993 soon for comparison.

Crivens

The 964 is a fantastic car and dont let any 993 owner tell you otherwise.
Listen to 964 owners for 964 advice.

Ive owned and driven all 3 and I still hanker after my first 964 C2.
It is an unbeatable package without the premium for the visuals of the 993.

If the engine is an early one 89/90 then about 120k miles is top-end rebuild territory. If it is a later one it will still need a top end perhaps around the 150k miles (assuming good servicing in past). Later engines will (should) have black plastic intake stacks - late 91 onwards. Buying one today the chances are you can get one thats already had a top-end rebuild for not much more than one that hasnt.

The performance difference of the 964 is noticable over the 3.2, the 3.6 engines are much more torquey and the cars feel a lot more sure footed.
remap it and it should serve you around the 290bhp. If you strip out some weight in the interior you will quite easily get a car you can happily thrash on road and track and it will see you home every time.

just my 2p.
993 is just a 964 dressed up. From your post It doenst appear that visuals is your key critical factor in your decision.

andrew911

The 993's command a high preimum due to the car being the pinnicle of air cooled 911 production, and simply because many people like the look of the car. I have a low mileage 964 (21K miles), and have driven a low miles 993 (low 20K miles). While the 993 has a 6th gear and and maybe little more torque and better handling (I honestly couldn't tell, but only drove the car for maybe 1/2 hour), I found the jump in experience to be much more considerable from my old '87 911 to my current '93 and couldn't justify the price difference on a mint 964 and mint 993. Also I like the higher fenders of the 964, which is a classic 911 look to me.

I had a '78 with the 915 tranny before getting the '87 with G50. Since you like the G50, you're search is narrowed down to 87-89 911, 90-94 964 and 95-98 993. I am trying to be non-biased here and you should definitely look at all 3 "generations" of cars, but if the older 87-89 is too raw for you, I think you'd find the 964 to be the best mix of experience, torque, more modern handling and value for the money. I'd search for the cleanest one you could find- the 92-94 had the clutch issue and head leak issues fixed (as most of the 90-91 cars have probably been updated by now as well), but also have the teardrop mirrors and cup style wheels.

I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the 911s and it is truely a personal taste issue as all of these cars are no longer newish cars- just get the cleanest one you can find (I know, everyone says that), and enjoy. If there is one car with 95k miles and well worn, and another with 45K miles and mint but $5K more expensive, I'd say spring for the money if you can and get the cleaner lower mileage car- for example.

Good luck- you're at the right place (rennlist) to ask the questions!

Doug&Julie

Smart man.

The 964s are probably the best "bargains" in terms of performance per purchase price. But you'll want to do a thorough PPI on them to make sure they haven't been neglected and some of the common "faults" have been worked out. Otherwise, that would be my vote...just enough modern w/o losing the "911 feel".

Otherwise, I'd spend for a good G50 3.2 Carrera ('87 - '89).

Edward

If you're looking for a "best buy," look no further than a 964 ...this coming from an avid 993 fan and owner. The bottom line is the bottom line: best price/performance, especially for your stated purpose, IMHO.

Much has been written about the 964 "issues" and "ugliness" ...the former is exaggerated (but DO get a good PPI from a 964-savvy wrench, of course), and the latter I just don't understand as it's a Carrera look that's simply modernized. So if you like the 964's lines, it is a superb choice for dual street and track duty. Over a Carrera, you get the torque of the 3.6 (wonderful), the benefit/tunability of coilovers, and real climate control that actually works well, bringing this 911 out of the stone age. Don't get me wrong, I have an SC, too, and love that pre-964 era, but they ought not be confused (ever!) with a modern car where commuter comfort is expected.

A G-50 Carrera is a great car, no doubt about it. But good examples are fetching top dollar since it marks the end of an era ...and a great era it was. So if you want "that" kind of car, the 87-89 911s are indeed superb machines. One other thing you may consider is that since you have decided to keep the BoxterS, you just may want this kind of car for it's "rawness." That way, you can have the "civil" car for regular driving, and turn the Carrera (or 964) into a more aggressive car a bit more biased toward track, but still useable on the street when the mood strikes. BTW, nothing wrong with the older cars' suspension ...you can make these cars handle very well!!

The 993 is going to ratchet up the price significantly. Needless to say, it is a superb car for dual purpose, too, (I tracked mine for years, and still commute daily with it), but it's going to be more dough, so that's up to you.

Hope this helps. Good luck on the hunt, and post pics of your victory purchase.

Edward

Doug&Julie

Well said Edward...

Bigman_99

I went through this recently and agree with almost everything stated above. I'd also add that it really depends on your expected use of the car. I'm assuming that the Boxster will be the daily driver. Also, are you mechnically inclined? Answer these questions and it will point to a few things.

If you tinker, I'd say go for the best 87-89 Coupe you can find. While very reliable, they are also the easiest to work on yourself. If the funds are available and you just want to do the air cooled thing but don't want to mess with it the 993 can't be beat. I always looked at the 964 as something in between.

That said, I would take a 964 or a 993 as a daily driver in a heartbeat. Since I don't use my car daily I went with an 89 911(speedster actually).

It really comes down to what you want (and where you live but thats a whole other story).

InTheAir

Good summaries, guys.

tchandler

Another owner of all three here as well as a boxster. I really liked my 964 as an all around car the best. (daily driver, touring and track use) Not as fussy as the 993, but certainly not as easy to work on as my current 77 with 3.0. I'd say if you can find a suitable example in your price range find a 964 RS America.

993's still comand a good primieum and if you wad it up on the track, you'll be pissed.