81 SC Newguy Questions
03-12-2006, 01:44 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
81 SC Newguy Questions
Hello All,
I am officially a porschaholic now. I bought a 97 993 a few weeks ago, my first porsche ever and damn do I love it!, but that's another story. I got so in to reading the DIY books that when an 81 SC wine red, 93K miles became available locally for $7000, I had to have it. I love it. It needs work which makes me love it even more. I picked it up yesterday and it drives fine, but I intend to make it perfect, or at least better. I bought a Sears 2 ton lift and some jack stands and my first project was changing the oil. The previous owner, in Montana where there is no speed limit, had not driven it for 3-4 years. The oil needed a change big time.
First let me put down my questions, then I will put down more of my narrative in case you are interested:
1) Engine drop-task compatibility: I have read how to perform an engine drop. But the engine is solid and I don't think I will need a rebuild, so I want to avoid putting the engine onto an engine stand. All 4 valve covers are dry to the bone, but I want to take the tops off to adjust the valve clearances. I think I need to rebuild the clutch (I often hear/feel a loud thunk or worse grind when pushing up to first gear).
-Can I do the valves?
-Can I replace oil pressure switch, oil thermostat o ring, oil breather hoses, CIS intake manifold hoses, oil cooler seals, pulley seals?
-Can I install the Carrera chain tensioners?
Or do the above require buying an engine stand. I read somewhere where a guy put a thick plywood platform onto a furniture cart so he could move the engine around.
2) Does it sound like I need to do the clutch to you? I hope you don't say that the transmission needs an overhaul. The 81 SC is supposed to have spring centered, not rubber, clutch plate.
3) The ride is rough. The I-5 in Seattle is an old road made of concrete and rocks, not asphault, and in the SC the vibrations are annoying. The shocks are green colored, so I am guessing Bilsteins. How can I improve my ride. Are the shocks not doing the job ie need to be replaced? Or perhaps that's what the Bilstein greens are supposed to do. I have read they are more sport suspension and stiff.
Back to the rest of the story. The car had a PPI so I knew what I was getting into. Compression test was 165-175 in all cylinders. Brakes pull (although I don't notice it. Maybe the car just had to be driven a little). They (Gerber Motorsport, an excellent place) recommend rebuilding the front brake calipers. They "advise will probably require clutch". "requires tie rod ends", new engine bay insulation, exhaust bracket broken, rear sway bar links worn, rear heater fan motor not working.
They also want to do an underbody cleaning to trace an oil leak, but I don't see one when I crawled under the engine and inspected. They want to replace oil lines, thermostat o rings, etc.
The treat to me was the surprise box filled with original porsche service manuals- 6 of them. They are in mint condition. 2 binders are very large and I think they are for a early 70's 911. The 4 smaller binders are I believe for this 81 SC. Most of the protocols are dated earlier than 1981, but I think that is because lots of things didn't change from one year to another. So the manuals just add appropriate supplements to the manual. By the way, some procedures are described well, and others assume you are an experienced Porsche mechanic. For example, one instruction was "remove the blower." No other description. That's why so far I like the Wayne Dempsey books.
Stop me from doing something dumb!
Thanks,
James
I am officially a porschaholic now. I bought a 97 993 a few weeks ago, my first porsche ever and damn do I love it!, but that's another story. I got so in to reading the DIY books that when an 81 SC wine red, 93K miles became available locally for $7000, I had to have it. I love it. It needs work which makes me love it even more. I picked it up yesterday and it drives fine, but I intend to make it perfect, or at least better. I bought a Sears 2 ton lift and some jack stands and my first project was changing the oil. The previous owner, in Montana where there is no speed limit, had not driven it for 3-4 years. The oil needed a change big time.
First let me put down my questions, then I will put down more of my narrative in case you are interested:
1) Engine drop-task compatibility: I have read how to perform an engine drop. But the engine is solid and I don't think I will need a rebuild, so I want to avoid putting the engine onto an engine stand. All 4 valve covers are dry to the bone, but I want to take the tops off to adjust the valve clearances. I think I need to rebuild the clutch (I often hear/feel a loud thunk or worse grind when pushing up to first gear).
-Can I do the valves?
-Can I replace oil pressure switch, oil thermostat o ring, oil breather hoses, CIS intake manifold hoses, oil cooler seals, pulley seals?
-Can I install the Carrera chain tensioners?
Or do the above require buying an engine stand. I read somewhere where a guy put a thick plywood platform onto a furniture cart so he could move the engine around.
2) Does it sound like I need to do the clutch to you? I hope you don't say that the transmission needs an overhaul. The 81 SC is supposed to have spring centered, not rubber, clutch plate.
3) The ride is rough. The I-5 in Seattle is an old road made of concrete and rocks, not asphault, and in the SC the vibrations are annoying. The shocks are green colored, so I am guessing Bilsteins. How can I improve my ride. Are the shocks not doing the job ie need to be replaced? Or perhaps that's what the Bilstein greens are supposed to do. I have read they are more sport suspension and stiff.
Back to the rest of the story. The car had a PPI so I knew what I was getting into. Compression test was 165-175 in all cylinders. Brakes pull (although I don't notice it. Maybe the car just had to be driven a little). They (Gerber Motorsport, an excellent place) recommend rebuilding the front brake calipers. They "advise will probably require clutch". "requires tie rod ends", new engine bay insulation, exhaust bracket broken, rear sway bar links worn, rear heater fan motor not working.
They also want to do an underbody cleaning to trace an oil leak, but I don't see one when I crawled under the engine and inspected. They want to replace oil lines, thermostat o rings, etc.
The treat to me was the surprise box filled with original porsche service manuals- 6 of them. They are in mint condition. 2 binders are very large and I think they are for a early 70's 911. The 4 smaller binders are I believe for this 81 SC. Most of the protocols are dated earlier than 1981, but I think that is because lots of things didn't change from one year to another. So the manuals just add appropriate supplements to the manual. By the way, some procedures are described well, and others assume you are an experienced Porsche mechanic. For example, one instruction was "remove the blower." No other description. That's why so far I like the Wayne Dempsey books.
Stop me from doing something dumb!
Thanks,
James
03-12-2006, 02:25 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hi James
Your post seems to be sinking toward the bottom, so although I can't answer your questions, I will at least welcome you to Rennlist. You bought 2 Porsches in a couple of weeks? Post some pics of your new babies . . .
Ian
Your post seems to be sinking toward the bottom, so although I can't answer your questions, I will at least welcome you to Rennlist. You bought 2 Porsches in a couple of weeks? Post some pics of your new babies . . .
Ian
03-12-2006, 03:16 PM
#3
Quit Smokin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
James,
You will probably find that the engine is a LOT easier to service out of the car. My general rule of thumb is that if you are working on one task, then in the car is fine. But you want to look at about three different areas which would all be easier if the engine was on the ground. I think you almost have to do a partial drop to get to the O-ring in the back. I too used a furniture dolly, and everything considered the SC is about the second easiest engine to remove that I have ever worked on. Once its down the valve adjustment will be EASY, as well as resealing the CIS parts. It will also give you a chance to visually inspect the clutch, and clean the engine bay
At any rate, it sounds like you have an interesting project. Unless it's gushing oil or running really bad I would think that you could continue to drive / play with it for at least a little while. I would try to avoid making the transmission clunk / grind into first gear, to avoid causing additional damage. From your brief description it is really hard to tell if the problem is the clutch or the trans. The general consensus on these cars though is that you shouldn't shift into first gear while its moving. I do it to mine every now and again, but I always double clutch, and I have missed it a couple times. One other thing that I would recommend while you are in there is to replace all the injector seals and O-rings. Parts are cheap, and if they have never been changed, this is as good a time as any to replace them.
Good luck with your project!
You will probably find that the engine is a LOT easier to service out of the car. My general rule of thumb is that if you are working on one task, then in the car is fine. But you want to look at about three different areas which would all be easier if the engine was on the ground. I think you almost have to do a partial drop to get to the O-ring in the back. I too used a furniture dolly, and everything considered the SC is about the second easiest engine to remove that I have ever worked on. Once its down the valve adjustment will be EASY, as well as resealing the CIS parts. It will also give you a chance to visually inspect the clutch, and clean the engine bay
At any rate, it sounds like you have an interesting project. Unless it's gushing oil or running really bad I would think that you could continue to drive / play with it for at least a little while. I would try to avoid making the transmission clunk / grind into first gear, to avoid causing additional damage. From your brief description it is really hard to tell if the problem is the clutch or the trans. The general consensus on these cars though is that you shouldn't shift into first gear while its moving. I do it to mine every now and again, but I always double clutch, and I have missed it a couple times. One other thing that I would recommend while you are in there is to replace all the injector seals and O-rings. Parts are cheap, and if they have never been changed, this is as good a time as any to replace them.Good luck with your project!
03-12-2006, 04:15 PM
#4
New tires will probably help your ride immensely. You said it had been sitting for 3-4 years. Old tires get really hard and ride rough. It made a big difference on my 78. But, you're probably also looking at needing new suspension bushings all the way around, too.
I'd say your first gear problem is the syncro.
You can certainly do the valve adjustment yourself. If you don't have experience, it will take 4-8 hrs the first time (if the engine is in the car). Carrera tensioners, also a DIY. Definitely take out the engine and do all this at one time and check out the clutch. I'm about to do this myself.
And, you may as well do spark plugs, spark plug wires, and new distributor cap and rotor.
Brake caliper rebuild is not that difficult a DIY, and it'll be worth installing new flexible brake lines at all corners, and completely flushing the brake fluid.
Good luck, and congrats on your Porsches,
Brett
I'd say your first gear problem is the syncro.
You can certainly do the valve adjustment yourself. If you don't have experience, it will take 4-8 hrs the first time (if the engine is in the car). Carrera tensioners, also a DIY. Definitely take out the engine and do all this at one time and check out the clutch. I'm about to do this myself.
And, you may as well do spark plugs, spark plug wires, and new distributor cap and rotor.
Brake caliper rebuild is not that difficult a DIY, and it'll be worth installing new flexible brake lines at all corners, and completely flushing the brake fluid.
Good luck, and congrats on your Porsches,
Brett
03-14-2006, 03:12 AM
#6
Rennlist Junkie Forever
SeattlePorsche
There is no such thing as a $7000 911.
$7000 simply means that you'll be putting the money in to the car instead of paying the previoius owner for the work at a discounted rate.
The transmission sounds like it will need to be pulled. Grinding into first is probably more than just a simple synchro problem. To do the job correctly, you'll spend about $750 on parts including gaskets and oil. I've seen many "rebuilds" where the synchros were simply replaced and the transmissions shifted like crap. And it's always the 1-2 shift that's the problem with these transmissions.
To get the trans shifting like new, guaranteed (assuming that you don't have an actual problem with the actual 1-2 gears (which would be clearly visible... and not likely)
The $750 will pay for the following on 1st & 2nd gears:
dog teeth on 1st & 2nd gears
synchros on 1st & 2nd gears
anchor blocks and brake bands on 1st & 2nd gears
1-2 slider
Tool to remove dog teeth on 1st & 2nd gears
Gallon of Swepco 201
New Gasket Set
New nuts on each end of the gear stacks with new cotter pin.
3 rolls of paper towels
12 cans of brake cleaner
1 jar of Curil gasket sealer
2 axle cv joint gaskets
1 twelve pack of beer :-)
This is an easy job that requires only about 1/2 day once the trans is out of the car. The car will shift like butter when you're done.
With respect to the rest of the problems.......
These will be easy to take care of (with the exception of a valve job) once the engine is out and on a stand.
Pulling the engine, in your garage, should take no longer than about 1-2 hours and is very simple and straight forward.
At this time is super simple to change the clutch.
Good luck,
TonyG
There is no such thing as a $7000 911.
$7000 simply means that you'll be putting the money in to the car instead of paying the previoius owner for the work at a discounted rate.
The transmission sounds like it will need to be pulled. Grinding into first is probably more than just a simple synchro problem. To do the job correctly, you'll spend about $750 on parts including gaskets and oil. I've seen many "rebuilds" where the synchros were simply replaced and the transmissions shifted like crap. And it's always the 1-2 shift that's the problem with these transmissions.
To get the trans shifting like new, guaranteed (assuming that you don't have an actual problem with the actual 1-2 gears (which would be clearly visible... and not likely)
The $750 will pay for the following on 1st & 2nd gears:
dog teeth on 1st & 2nd gears
synchros on 1st & 2nd gears
anchor blocks and brake bands on 1st & 2nd gears
1-2 slider
Tool to remove dog teeth on 1st & 2nd gears
Gallon of Swepco 201
New Gasket Set
New nuts on each end of the gear stacks with new cotter pin.
3 rolls of paper towels
12 cans of brake cleaner
1 jar of Curil gasket sealer
2 axle cv joint gaskets
1 twelve pack of beer :-)
This is an easy job that requires only about 1/2 day once the trans is out of the car. The car will shift like butter when you're done.
With respect to the rest of the problems.......
These will be easy to take care of (with the exception of a valve job) once the engine is out and on a stand.
Pulling the engine, in your garage, should take no longer than about 1-2 hours and is very simple and straight forward.
At this time is super simple to change the clutch.
Good luck,
TonyG
03-20-2006, 03:59 AM
#7
Pro
Thread Starter
Tires changed...Much better ride
Took my car in for its first pampering. The guys at Gerber Motorsport are very nice and answered all my questions. They test drove the car and found the occasional first gear thunk to be the clutch. Great, cause that is on my list of DIY projects.
You guys were right, the tires improved the ride immensely. I just bought a bunch of craftsman tools and I am ready to start. I will start with the front axle. Brake calipers are sticking and need to come off and be rebuilt. I will probably send the brake calipers out for that. When the car was on the lift, the front wheels don't spin when in neutral. I'll change the wheel bearings, new brake lines, new turbo tie rods. My current tie rods look terrible. Gerber thought the handling was bad because of them. Brake discs look ok. Definitely new discs.
I will get pics up as soon as I find my camera cable. Thanks for the input to all!
James
You guys were right, the tires improved the ride immensely. I just bought a bunch of craftsman tools and I am ready to start. I will start with the front axle. Brake calipers are sticking and need to come off and be rebuilt. I will probably send the brake calipers out for that. When the car was on the lift, the front wheels don't spin when in neutral. I'll change the wheel bearings, new brake lines, new turbo tie rods. My current tie rods look terrible. Gerber thought the handling was bad because of them. Brake discs look ok. Definitely new discs.
I will get pics up as soon as I find my camera cable. Thanks for the input to all!
James