RicoJay

I just got done making this elaborate excel spreadsheet of all the maintenance issues that need to be taken care of on my relatively new 3.2. When I got done with this massive list of everything, included my car's current mileage, I realized that just about every maintenance item is overdue. With all due respect to the generally respected members of this page, I simply don't want to hear from anybody who adjusts his valves every 9,999 miles. That is not the life I want to lead, and I would not have considered a car unless it was a diehard reliable one such as the 3.2. While I respect your dedication to your fine automobile, I seek to neglect that which can be neglected.

So for the rest of you normal people, come on fess up. I file brake bleeding under my list of maintenance items that I forgo. Here is my list of things that a real world daily driver needs to have checked when it comes to brakes:

1. Make sure the pads don't run out and you scrape up your rotors.

That's it. I don't know anyone who bleeds their brakes, and I don't know anyone who has ever experienced brake failure. I'd estimate that 99% of the driving public doesn't even think about their brakes beyond the pad aspect.

And what's up with this whole valve adjustment every 10K miles garbage? I'd feel quite comfortable wagering my left you know what that you could not think about valves for 30K miles on ANY car and it would still purr like a kitten.

Here is my list of items that I definitely will not skimp on in the 3.2:
1. Oil annually. It's cheap, it's easy, the engine is important. End of story.
2. Tranny oil every 2 years. The 915 wears out synchros fast, and the tranny seems to be Porsche's fatal flaw. It's cheap, it's easy, and the tranny is important.
3. Check pad wear and rotor wear while I'm down there. Both looked good, I told them I'd see them in 3 years.
4. Plugs every 3-4 years, maybe a cap and rotor if you think they are the original one on the car as I do with mine.
5. Tires: check air here or there, replace tires when they're worn.

I've seen posts with new owners asking about maintenance, and people telling them their bushings and shocks are probably worn becasue the car is 20 years old. I'm sorry but that just rubs me the wrong way. I realize some people work at Pelican Parts, but to tell someone their shocks are probably worn without mentioning the whole "step on the corner, make sure it bounces only once" test is just being obnoxious.

The 911 is the pinnacle of reliable sports car driving. That is why we all bought one, and that is our common bond. Let's not turn this into a contest to see who can perform the most maintenance and at the quickest intervals.

DanS911

I just did a valve adjustment on my 3.0L after two years. I drive the car hard and it has always been a once a year ritual for me.

One very tight several very loose and one cracked rocker arm that came in half within the first two seconds of putting a wrench on it.........

Air cooled cars need to have the valves adjusted regularly.
It's cheap if you do it yourself (I didn't) and it's important.

J. Brinkley

so you think a car thats been sitting on it's own weight, miles or no miles for twenty years has acceptable rubber bushings?

KC911

If you don't think your shocks and bushings (and most other suspension components) are shot after 20+ years (along with many of the other things you seem to be willing to ignore), then you're asking the wrong folks imo. Believe what you want, but it seems like you probably already know the answers, and are simply wanting to cut corners (i.e. neglecting 'good maintenance' procedures). To each their own...

g-50cab

I think for the most part - people maintain (or over maintain in your view) to avoid the big hits. Major Porsche work takes major cash - you either pay in increments or start filling up a wheelbarrow now.

911Dave

Let's not forget that reliability refers to the frequency of needed repairs, not the frequency of maintenance.

Brake bleeding - I agree, most people (Americans, at least) don't want to take care of their cars and they probably never look at their maintenance books and only fix their cars when they break. But most cars aren't Porsches, and most owners aren't enthusiasts. Only an enthusiast can successfully own a 20-year-old 911, IMO.

Plugs - Most enthusiasts replace them even when they aren't really in need of replacement. The PO of my car ran 17 years on the same plugs and they still fired.

915 Transmission - gotta disagree with you there. The 915 is one of the strongest elements of your car. Driven properly, the synchros will last well over 100k miles.

Valves - my 86 maintenance book says to CHECK the clearance every 15k miles, and adjust if necessary. I would follow that advice to the letter if my car was only driven like a normal car. If you track your car and frequently run in the higher revs, you should check the clearance more often. Also, 20-year-old valves and guides are worn and will go out of adjustment more rapidly than a newer car. 10k is very reasonable as an interval for adjustment at this point in the car's life.

Bushings and shocks - It's possible your bushings are still serviceable, but they are most certainly not up to spec after 20 years. Same goes for shocks. My rear shocks are being replaced for the first time after 20 years and 102k miles as we speak. They were still serviceable, but very tired and not performing up to spec. Can you drive a 911 like this? Sure, but why would you want to? Nobody buys a 20 year old car just for transportation. This is a car for someone who wants it to be the best it can be. Owning a 911 is a love affair. If you're not that kind of person, then you are unlikely to be a 911 owner very long. The 911 is a special car and it deserves special treatment. Please think about selling your car to someone who will love it properly.

art

I bleed brakes pretty often(2-3 years), usually in conjuction with some other bit of required service. It is cheap and easy considering the cost of replacing calipers, etc and the risk of having one freeze and ruining your day. I would say the failure mode is not for the brakes to fail and having your life ended, but just that a caliper will freeze and cause a mess and maybe a tow. On cars like ours that don't get driven much, the risk is higher that something will tighten up.

One really good reason to do these seemingly annoying 'geek' things is that it somewhat forces you to look at things that might not get seen all that often. This is one reason I like do do my own oil changes; The idiots at dealers, shops, etc just do it with their eyes shut where you might notice something that is easily corrected that can save a hassle later. This gets into the zen of having these cars.

Peter Zimmermann

Simple, stick with the factory schedule and one oil change per year, or 5K miles, whichever comes first.
Pete

ron mcatee

Rico, I don't know how you were educated on preventive maintenance, but it has to be done periodically or parts will fail due to corrosion, seal set, rotting rubber, improper adjustments, etc. This anomoly is not a Porsche thing, but is experienced by all vehicles. If you read any owners manual for any given vehicle, it will say suggested maintenance intervals. Do it or you may possibly have a problem. As far as brakes go, the fluid accululates water which is a corrosive element on metal. That corrosion contaminates the lines and the the calipers and will in all probability cause problems in the system. If you don't think it should be done...don't do it. I guarantee you that you will have problems in the future. You mentioned shocks: They damper the ground effects of the ride in you car. If you want the car to jump up and down when you hit a bump in the road, that's you call. 40 years ago, I had a friend who believed like you do. He had bad shocks , but still drove the car like it was brand new. He hit a rough road one evening and the bouncing of the car caused him to lose control of the car, whereas, he rolled it and died. Many of us responding to this thread have been "down the pike" and have a great deal of knowlege on Porsche's and other vehicles. Experience is what dictates our comments. I suggest you not take our advice and do whatever you want and see where it takes you. Oh, by the way, if those valves you think shopuld not be adjusted.....wait until one of them gets too tight and you burn the valves. Then you will need at least a top end rebuild. Nowadays thats somewhere between $3K and $5K to fix. Then you will understand why preventive maintenance is so important. Good luck.

ked

RicoJ, Normal people don't buy 20 yr old Porsches & use them as dependendable daily transport, track cars, a hobby & an investment, so you may not get much normalcy here. I have to wonder if your inquiry is intended just to get a rise out of these crazy 'ole (cars, not owners) Porsche freaks - I am impressed w/ the tenor of the responses (a characteristic of the 911 Forum, I have noted over the years, even in the face of strong disagreements). The weather down here has been too nice for cabin fever to explain it, so I'll just take 2 of your issues at face value, w/ reference to facts you may not be aware of...
- your 911 does not have a hydraulic, self-adjusting valve train. instead, it was DESIGNED BY PORSCHE to require checking & adjusting at the specified intervals. if you want to compare the required intervals to "most cars", then those cars should be Ferraris, Alfas, Jaguars, & similar also rooted in 50s & 60s high performance & competition engine design.
- a car that goes fast ought to stop even faster, esp from high speed. Porsches do. in fact, the brakes have always been an outstanding feature of Porsches when compared w/ ANY other production car EVER made. the brake system in a 20 yr old 911 may seem to operate quite well in a degraded state of maintainance, probably even as well as a 5 yr old Ford Taurus. So if that's your standard.... However, there are physics-based reasons that brake fluid turns black over the years, that brakes operate far better (firm, high pedal, no grab or fade) after a flush & bleed. the factory recommends doing so every 2 years - all the hydraulic components (master cyl, calipers & lines) will last longer & perform exceedingly well. not to mention your life (& others) depends upon very good brakes in a very fast, great handling car.

so, do whatever you wish - it is your machine. all I ask is that if you execute on the approach as you describe, if you ever sell old 911, please let us know. we try not to buy normal Porsches. good luck!

ron mcatee

ked, well put.

RicoJay

In the first sentence, I mentioned that I made a full excel spreadsheet that upon entering my current mileage tells me what items are overdue and what aren't. I also have a section for the time-sensitive items, like the 2 year brake bleed stuff. I assure you that no person who does what I did is completely insensitive to the recommendations of others. In fact, I probably did exactly what you would recommend a new 3.2 buyer do upon purchase.

I was not trying to get a rise out of the enthusiasts on this board. I depend on their intelligence and experience to guide me through my future issues while underneath my vehicle. I bought the 101 projects and the Bentley manual for this same expert advice.

My problem is with people welcoming a newbie to the 911 world with "well your bushings and shocks are probably shot." To me, that is just not the right way to deal with people. Sure you could argue that people who buy older 911's don't buy them to drive a normal car, but I would counterargue that people who buy older 911's are likely people who can live without having brand new shocks on their transportation. If I wanted brand new bushings, shocks, calipers, etc, then why wouldn't I just save myself the trouble and buy a new car? No financially wise person would advise buying a 20 year old car and then trying to make all the things that have been used and slightly compromised over 20 years brand new.

I plan to be a 911 owner for a very long time. I plan to maintain my car in a very adequate way. In fact, I may have been slightly movitated to start this thread simply by frustration with how much I have to learn about my car that I already knew about my 951. That is not indicative of my not planning to maintain my car. I apologize if it rubbed anyone the wrong way.

915 issue:
Every time I shift into 2nd gear, I cringe hoping things go well. It's always a wierd wild adventure getting it to slide in. I test drove 3 other 911's, all 915s, and they all shifted exactly the same way. I'm used to it and after a few grinds into 2nd I've mastered avoiding that and I'm entering the phase it seems you all are in where we refer to it as 'character'. You can defend the 915 all you want, but it sure seems finicky, slow, and inconsistent to my hand. And I'm not sure it seems to be getting rave reviews of reliability either. Again, I don't really know personally, I'm simply going by the 3.8 million threads on shifting problems. I can remember the complete beating my 951 took over the first 2-3 months I owned it back in college, 1st gear to 6000, quick shift into 2nd gear. 5 years later, nary a shifter complaint. I have such a FEAR of even trying that once in my 915. Is that the hallmark of a tranny worth defending?

r911

The problem is that the susp. bushings are likely not just a little worn they are probably in bad shape - regradless of the mileage. Steel will last centuries with little problem but window glass will flow and distort in a 100 yr old building. The rubber and plastic items in the suspension need to be replaced, if they haven't already. They will cold flow just from the wt. of the car - even if it was _never_ driven. It will make a world of difference in both comfort and handling. I'm not sure if it is unsafe, but poor handling isn't very safe.

There is a pretty comprehensive thread on the PElican bbs you should look at. Search for long term & preventative maintenance.

nullH20

Have you replaced the plastic shift bushings ( at the base of the shifter & in the shift rod coupler in the tunnel)? That may help your shifting woes.

Agree w/ others on the suspension bushings, although its not an 'urgent' item. After supporting the weight of the car for 20 years they deserve retirement! Its difficult / pricy but once you have done it you'll wonder how you ever drove your car w/ sloppy handling so long! I drove a 25 year old SC the other day w/ all original suspension & it felt like a late 60's Ford Mustang!

Otherise maintenance on these cars isn't really daunting. Plugs, cap & rotor are a 1 hour job (30 mins once you get used to it). Valve adjustment is trickier, but unless your car is a daily driver it only comes aroung once every 2-3 years or so (I don't think the factory specifies 10,000 miles- although I might be wrong!). You are right that most americans don't care about changing brake fluid. Most don't care about ever checking tire pressures either.

KC911

Like I stated earlier Rico, you can believe what you wish, but it's simply the reality of the situation when we tell a newbie that their 20+ year old suspension is shot. Once you refresh one (as I did on an 18 year old garage queen w/ less than 50K miles), you will become a believer too. As far as not bleeding brakes (much less regularly changing/flushing the system), 30K intervals for valve adjustments, etc. others have already responded. Do you HAVE to do all of these things (along with other essential items)...certainly not, but make no mistake, you are neglecting your 911 if you don't. Fail to properly maintain your 911, and either your car will suffer, or you (or someone) will pay dearly for it to be corrected later on down the line. Good luck, and remember that this is my opinion only....you are certainly entitled to yours too.