m3 vs 911
12-06-2005, 11:51 PM
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m3 vs 911
there is a thread,it must be old...i was fooling around on roadfly(i think)..m3 vs 911..some real funny and stupid posts..is it me ,or are these the wrong cars to compare..i didnt get it.i had a 330ci(03) .great car.so i imagine an m3 would be like that but faster,stiffer so on.a 911 is,well a porsche 911.why not compare a wrx to these..i loved the bimmer guys saying that porsches basically sucked and the m3 is the best..lol.i drove my 87 911 after reading all of that crap and just laughed.not long ago i wanted a m3,and i am so glad i bought my 4th porsche.i will never go back...its been 4 months of long drives,waxing,so on..when i run to the store(1mile),it seems to always take me 30 min.....i just dont see comparing a sedan,even a coupe(m3)to a 911
12-07-2005, 12:44 AM
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The 911 vs M3 vs etc. threads dominated Roadfly and that is why I quit that site. Apples and oranges.
12-07-2005, 10:44 AM
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Funny this comes up now.... last weekend I was out on a drive, a new M3 Cab pulled
up on me, girl driver but very nice car... lowered ! she punched it, I let her get
about one car length ahead for saftey reasons ( ticket ) if caught. The car preformed
pretty well and I have always liked the way the M3 looks, especially lowered with
good tires.
Chuck
up on me, girl driver but very nice car... lowered ! she punched it, I let her get
about one car length ahead for saftey reasons ( ticket ) if caught. The car preformed
pretty well and I have always liked the way the M3 looks, especially lowered with
good tires.
Chuck
12-07-2005, 11:12 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
As someone who has driven a 996, 993, 3.2, and a 968 and now have an e46 M3 [MY2002], I can provide some insight here.
One of the most interesting things to notice is how much you take Porsche handling, steering, and braking for granted when you drive one every day. After I sold my 993 for the more practical 968, I lamented the braking and overall "feel" of my 993 compared to the 968. I thought maybe there was something wrong with the brakes, and my mechanic drove it and said "nope, you just got spoiled with your 993 Brakes'.
Fast forward to a month ago, and I began driving my late Father's M3. It's really fun to drive, very quick [333HP] and it has a redline of 8K RPM in a straight six. Pretty impressive engine. The brakes bite well but are more servoed than the Porsche brakes, and the steering is about the same. More boosted but still direct.
You can fit golf clubs galore in the trunk, and even fit 2 reasonably sized adults in back [the 3 series coupes are actually longer, lower, and wider than the sedans, making them larger cars than the 4 door interestingly enough]. The AC/Heat are great to deal with on a day-to-day basis, there is a disc changer in the trunk as well as the dash, and I do really like the looks of the e46 coupes. I think they will go on to be some of the best looking BMWs ever produced [not a fan of the Bangle-ized bodies personally].
I drove my 968 a week ago after being in the M3 for several weeks, and lo and behold, I marvelled at its steering, braking, handling, and overall feel. The motor did not feel the least bit slow, although definitely not as quick as the M3. The car, from a pure driving experience/sports car feel standpoint, beats the M3 hands down. Both cars are bone stock [with the exception of the 968 having 17" wheels and an airbox modification].
The end result is that it is foolish to compare one and the other. The 911 certainly is more of a sports car, and I would say even the 968 is more of a sports car than the M3, and it comes close to it in useabilty as well. Not as comfortable to drive, not as many gadgets, but it does have decent storage space.
I would say that those who want a sporting car with the capability of massive speed but also want something that you can travel comfortably in and not make sacrifices for, the M3 is your machine. If one wants a no-nonsense sports car that places performance above comfort, luggage space, and convenience, he should look to an older 911 or other Porsche.
Things get skewed with the 996+ variant 911s, as they seem to have become more of a GT-car than the no-frills sports car of 911s of old. The 996 was extremely comfortable and rivals the M3 in terms of comfort with sporting tendencies, but the brakes and steering in the 996 destroy the M3, as I would think it would on the track. The cars are built for different people. Neither choice is a bad one, I just think it is foolish to compare the 2 cars to one another because not that many people honestly cross shop them I don't think.
Sorry for the long post, I just don't understand why people get into pissing contests about "which car is better" when I think they both have different strengths and weaknesses. Be happy with what you drive, and enjoy it...it's like the football fans who beat another team and then talk smack to the other team's fans saying "your team sucks"...What does that imply about the performance of the winning team? That they can only beat sucky teams? That's my story and I'm sticking to it
One of the most interesting things to notice is how much you take Porsche handling, steering, and braking for granted when you drive one every day. After I sold my 993 for the more practical 968, I lamented the braking and overall "feel" of my 993 compared to the 968. I thought maybe there was something wrong with the brakes, and my mechanic drove it and said "nope, you just got spoiled with your 993 Brakes'.
Fast forward to a month ago, and I began driving my late Father's M3. It's really fun to drive, very quick [333HP] and it has a redline of 8K RPM in a straight six. Pretty impressive engine. The brakes bite well but are more servoed than the Porsche brakes, and the steering is about the same. More boosted but still direct.
You can fit golf clubs galore in the trunk, and even fit 2 reasonably sized adults in back [the 3 series coupes are actually longer, lower, and wider than the sedans, making them larger cars than the 4 door interestingly enough]. The AC/Heat are great to deal with on a day-to-day basis, there is a disc changer in the trunk as well as the dash, and I do really like the looks of the e46 coupes. I think they will go on to be some of the best looking BMWs ever produced [not a fan of the Bangle-ized bodies personally].
I drove my 968 a week ago after being in the M3 for several weeks, and lo and behold, I marvelled at its steering, braking, handling, and overall feel. The motor did not feel the least bit slow, although definitely not as quick as the M3. The car, from a pure driving experience/sports car feel standpoint, beats the M3 hands down. Both cars are bone stock [with the exception of the 968 having 17" wheels and an airbox modification].
The end result is that it is foolish to compare one and the other. The 911 certainly is more of a sports car, and I would say even the 968 is more of a sports car than the M3, and it comes close to it in useabilty as well. Not as comfortable to drive, not as many gadgets, but it does have decent storage space.
I would say that those who want a sporting car with the capability of massive speed but also want something that you can travel comfortably in and not make sacrifices for, the M3 is your machine. If one wants a no-nonsense sports car that places performance above comfort, luggage space, and convenience, he should look to an older 911 or other Porsche.
Things get skewed with the 996+ variant 911s, as they seem to have become more of a GT-car than the no-frills sports car of 911s of old. The 996 was extremely comfortable and rivals the M3 in terms of comfort with sporting tendencies, but the brakes and steering in the 996 destroy the M3, as I would think it would on the track. The cars are built for different people. Neither choice is a bad one, I just think it is foolish to compare the 2 cars to one another because not that many people honestly cross shop them I don't think.
Sorry for the long post, I just don't understand why people get into pissing contests about "which car is better" when I think they both have different strengths and weaknesses. Be happy with what you drive, and enjoy it...it's like the football fans who beat another team and then talk smack to the other team's fans saying "your team sucks"...What does that imply about the performance of the winning team? That they can only beat sucky teams? That's my story and I'm sticking to it
12-07-2005, 01:54 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ventoGT
As someone who has driven a 996, 993, 3.2, and a 968 and now have an e46 M3 [MY2002], I can provide some insight here.
One of the most interesting things to notice is how much you take Porsche handling, steering, and braking for granted when you drive one every day. After I sold my 993 for the more practical 968, I lamented the braking and overall "feel" of my 993 compared to the 968. I thought maybe there was something wrong with the brakes, and my mechanic drove it and said "nope, you just got spoiled with your 993 Brakes'.
Fast forward to a month ago, and I began driving my late Father's M3. It's really fun to drive, very quick [333HP] and it has a redline of 8K RPM in a straight six. Pretty impressive engine. The brakes bite well but are more servoed than the Porsche brakes, and the steering is about the same. More boosted but still direct.
You can fit golf clubs galore in the trunk, and even fit 2 reasonably sized adults in back [the 3 series coupes are actually longer, lower, and wider than the sedans, making them larger cars than the 4 door interestingly enough]. The AC/Heat are great to deal with on a day-to-day basis, there is a disc changer in the trunk as well as the dash, and I do really like the looks of the e46 coupes. I think they will go on to be some of the best looking BMWs ever produced [not a fan of the Bangle-ized bodies personally].
I drove my 968 a week ago after being in the M3 for several weeks, and lo and behold, I marvelled at its steering, braking, handling, and overall feel. The motor did not feel the least bit slow, although definitely not as quick as the M3. The car, from a pure driving experience/sports car feel standpoint, beats the M3 hands down. Both cars are bone stock [with the exception of the 968 having 17" wheels and an airbox modification].
The end result is that it is foolish to compare one and the other. The 911 certainly is more of a sports car, and I would say even the 968 is more of a sports car than the M3, and it comes close to it in useabilty as well. Not as comfortable to drive, not as many gadgets, but it does have decent storage space.
I would say that those who want a sporting car with the capability of massive speed but also want something that you can travel comfortably in and not make sacrifices for, the M3 is your machine. If one wants a no-nonsense sports car that places performance above comfort, luggage space, and convenience, he should look to an older 911 or other Porsche.
Things get skewed with the 996+ variant 911s, as they seem to have become more of a GT-car than the no-frills sports car of 911s of old. The 996 was extremely comfortable and rivals the M3 in terms of comfort with sporting tendencies, but the brakes and steering in the 996 destroy the M3, as I would think it would on the track. The cars are built for different people. Neither choice is a bad one, I just think it is foolish to compare the 2 cars to one another because not that many people honestly cross shop them I don't think.
Sorry for the long post, I just don't understand why people get into pissing contests about "which car is better" when I think they both have different strengths and weaknesses. Be happy with what you drive, and enjoy it...it's like the football fans who beat another team and then talk smack to the other team's fans saying "your team sucks"...What does that imply about the performance of the winning team? That they can only beat sucky teams? That's my story and I'm sticking to it
One of the most interesting things to notice is how much you take Porsche handling, steering, and braking for granted when you drive one every day. After I sold my 993 for the more practical 968, I lamented the braking and overall "feel" of my 993 compared to the 968. I thought maybe there was something wrong with the brakes, and my mechanic drove it and said "nope, you just got spoiled with your 993 Brakes'.
Fast forward to a month ago, and I began driving my late Father's M3. It's really fun to drive, very quick [333HP] and it has a redline of 8K RPM in a straight six. Pretty impressive engine. The brakes bite well but are more servoed than the Porsche brakes, and the steering is about the same. More boosted but still direct.
You can fit golf clubs galore in the trunk, and even fit 2 reasonably sized adults in back [the 3 series coupes are actually longer, lower, and wider than the sedans, making them larger cars than the 4 door interestingly enough]. The AC/Heat are great to deal with on a day-to-day basis, there is a disc changer in the trunk as well as the dash, and I do really like the looks of the e46 coupes. I think they will go on to be some of the best looking BMWs ever produced [not a fan of the Bangle-ized bodies personally].
I drove my 968 a week ago after being in the M3 for several weeks, and lo and behold, I marvelled at its steering, braking, handling, and overall feel. The motor did not feel the least bit slow, although definitely not as quick as the M3. The car, from a pure driving experience/sports car feel standpoint, beats the M3 hands down. Both cars are bone stock [with the exception of the 968 having 17" wheels and an airbox modification].
The end result is that it is foolish to compare one and the other. The 911 certainly is more of a sports car, and I would say even the 968 is more of a sports car than the M3, and it comes close to it in useabilty as well. Not as comfortable to drive, not as many gadgets, but it does have decent storage space.
I would say that those who want a sporting car with the capability of massive speed but also want something that you can travel comfortably in and not make sacrifices for, the M3 is your machine. If one wants a no-nonsense sports car that places performance above comfort, luggage space, and convenience, he should look to an older 911 or other Porsche.
Things get skewed with the 996+ variant 911s, as they seem to have become more of a GT-car than the no-frills sports car of 911s of old. The 996 was extremely comfortable and rivals the M3 in terms of comfort with sporting tendencies, but the brakes and steering in the 996 destroy the M3, as I would think it would on the track. The cars are built for different people. Neither choice is a bad one, I just think it is foolish to compare the 2 cars to one another because not that many people honestly cross shop them I don't think.
Sorry for the long post, I just don't understand why people get into pissing contests about "which car is better" when I think they both have different strengths and weaknesses. Be happy with what you drive, and enjoy it...it's like the football fans who beat another team and then talk smack to the other team's fans saying "your team sucks"...What does that imply about the performance of the winning team? That they can only beat sucky teams? That's my story and I'm sticking to it
I had an E46 M3, drove it as a daily driver, and on track about once a month. It was a great car, very capable, very practical. When its connecting rod bearings started melting, I wasn't satisfied with a new set, I wanted proof that there was no main bearing or crankshaft damage. BMW said 'here's your new bearings, go away'. Plus the local service writer was an absolute pr!ck regarding his suspicions that I tracked the car (because of my special backing plates from Bimmerworld that allowed me to put on brake cooling hoses). The local dealer could have pushed for a new S54 engine, I knew of precedents where other customers got complete new engines,but because he was a butthead about tracking a car I got no resolution, despite showing them all the money I'd spent on changing oil and filter (using their obscenely expensive BMW Castrol synth) before every track event, because I knew about the connecting rod bearing issues. It's a f*cking ///M car, one should be able to drive it as it was designed. They chased me right into a Porsche showroom with their 'customer service'.
I then got a 996 C4S, similar power-to-weight as the M3, but I think you guys know which car I considered to be more 'fun' and involving to drive on track, it was a slam dunk. Porsche, there is no substitute. Despite it being a 996 and more "GT" than earlier Porsches,I found its steering to be more telepathic, I loved the rear weight bias, and having a bit of FWD when needed saved my butt many times. I've never driven a 993 or earlier on track, haven't even driven a 996 C2 on track, but to me it was immediately very clear that the Porsche is a sports car, and the M3 is a very capable sports sedan/coupe.
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12-07-2005, 07:15 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Totally agree with Cole's post (VentoGT) above. I also own a 2002 M3 Coupe and a 1983 911SC. His thoughts are pretty spot on as far as I'm concerned.
I have had both of my cars at the racetrack, I have at least one full season of autocross in each of them, I've used both for daily driving, and have had each on long (1000+ mile) trips. They are both awesome machines. I, like Cole, find it amusing and sometimes annoying that so-called enthusiasts take such a black and white view on other enthusiast cars. The M3, driven properly on a fast racetrack, will easily compete with modern 996 and 997 911 Porsches.. It has a killer motor that loves to rev and is well-geared, and with the right tires and wheels, it rotates beatuifully and predictably. With aftermarket suspension pieces and brake upgrades, it is extremely stout. The 911, on the other hand, is a scalpel. I took the Bertil-Roos racing school this year in formula cars, and I was able to translate much of what I learned in those open cars to my 911. The ability to steer a 911 so precisely through a tight corner using advanced line correction and throttle modulation is just thrilling, not to mention rewarding. On a tighter course, I can easily run down modern, faster cars like E46 M3s and later Porsche 911s. Somehow being ast when you are not supposed to be is more fun thatn driving a car that everyone expects to be fast.
Have to disagree totally, on the other hand, with DB SC 83911SC on the reliability issues with the S54 (E46 BMW M3 motor). The rod bearing issues were traced to a bad batch, the engines repaired, and a huge warranty placed on them by BMW. My car is warrantied to 100,000 miles, basically. There was a lot of "message board paranoia" over these cars in the past. What people fail to recognize is that the advent of the internet makes these problems well-known, much more so then in the past. How would you hear about such an issue before the internet? Word of mouth? Through car magazines? Unless you had a link to the inside scoop, we didn't hear about problems in the past like we do now. The good part is that the internet is a catalyst for car companies to straighten out these issues quickly, or risk their reputation online. Besides, newer Porsches have plenty of major issues as well, the most well known being the RMS issue on the blocks of the Boxster and 996 and 997 cars. Porsche denied the problem until it was well-documented, much like BMW did. Many a Porsche owner was driven away by their dealers' attitudes as well. A good friend of mine with a C4S just had his engine blow this past summer for no apparent reason on the track with only like 40,000 miles on the clock. We suspected oil starvation, as these engines no longer have dry sumps. I digress...
I assess the two model lines as follows:
E30 M3: Sports Car
E36 and E46 M3s: GTs
911/930: Sports Car
964: Sports Car
993: Sports Car or GT depending on options and set-up...can be nimble, can be a pig
996 and 997: GTs
I have had both of my cars at the racetrack, I have at least one full season of autocross in each of them, I've used both for daily driving, and have had each on long (1000+ mile) trips. They are both awesome machines. I, like Cole, find it amusing and sometimes annoying that so-called enthusiasts take such a black and white view on other enthusiast cars. The M3, driven properly on a fast racetrack, will easily compete with modern 996 and 997 911 Porsches.. It has a killer motor that loves to rev and is well-geared, and with the right tires and wheels, it rotates beatuifully and predictably. With aftermarket suspension pieces and brake upgrades, it is extremely stout. The 911, on the other hand, is a scalpel. I took the Bertil-Roos racing school this year in formula cars, and I was able to translate much of what I learned in those open cars to my 911. The ability to steer a 911 so precisely through a tight corner using advanced line correction and throttle modulation is just thrilling, not to mention rewarding. On a tighter course, I can easily run down modern, faster cars like E46 M3s and later Porsche 911s. Somehow being ast when you are not supposed to be is more fun thatn driving a car that everyone expects to be fast.
Have to disagree totally, on the other hand, with DB SC 83911SC on the reliability issues with the S54 (E46 BMW M3 motor). The rod bearing issues were traced to a bad batch, the engines repaired, and a huge warranty placed on them by BMW. My car is warrantied to 100,000 miles, basically. There was a lot of "message board paranoia" over these cars in the past. What people fail to recognize is that the advent of the internet makes these problems well-known, much more so then in the past. How would you hear about such an issue before the internet? Word of mouth? Through car magazines? Unless you had a link to the inside scoop, we didn't hear about problems in the past like we do now. The good part is that the internet is a catalyst for car companies to straighten out these issues quickly, or risk their reputation online. Besides, newer Porsches have plenty of major issues as well, the most well known being the RMS issue on the blocks of the Boxster and 996 and 997 cars. Porsche denied the problem until it was well-documented, much like BMW did. Many a Porsche owner was driven away by their dealers' attitudes as well. A good friend of mine with a C4S just had his engine blow this past summer for no apparent reason on the track with only like 40,000 miles on the clock. We suspected oil starvation, as these engines no longer have dry sumps. I digress...
I assess the two model lines as follows:
E30 M3: Sports Car
E36 and E46 M3s: GTs
911/930: Sports Car
964: Sports Car
993: Sports Car or GT depending on options and set-up...can be nimble, can be a pig
996 and 997: GTs
12-07-2005, 09:10 PM
#11
Having had the recent pleasure to experience both an E30 M3 (By experience I mean lead and then needed to follow at Shenendoah Circuit) and and E36 M3 I have a great deal of respect for the cars. Very nice power/weight ratios. Really nice handling (turn in, balance, suspension compliance etc). Nice brakes too!
If I couldn't have a 911 I would have one of these cars. That's the reason for the constant comparisons. To me they are the only car I would give up my Porsche for. Then, to consider their performance AND practicalty (you know, some folks do need a DD, or a car with a back seat, or modern ammenities) and they become even more attractive.
Great cars - Both!
If I couldn't have a 911 I would have one of these cars. That's the reason for the constant comparisons. To me they are the only car I would give up my Porsche for. Then, to consider their performance AND practicalty (you know, some folks do need a DD, or a car with a back seat, or modern ammenities) and they become even more attractive.
Great cars - Both!
12-07-2005, 10:44 PM
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is the older m3 more of a sports car? is it like the 3.2 being more raw and pure(for lack of a better word)than the 996.my 330ci felt dissconnected to the road.the steering felt kinda mushy.i thought the e90 felt better.but i have never driven an m3...which is the best in your opinions?i prefer the overall feel of the 3.2 or 993 to the 996.i have yet to drive the 997.
12-07-2005, 10:56 PM
#13
Race Car
most of the bmw track guys i know have a great deal of respect for the 911, and vice versa. it's the posers that are insecure.
i have never driven a 911 on the track, so I can't comment. but i am leaving the porsche world. after owning three 944s including a turbo, i have come to the conclusion they are nothing but maintenance pigs with an outdated suspension design. they do handle well, but my E36 will be more advanced and a funner and more reliable car to drive on the track (at least I hope that's the case )
i have never driven a 911 on the track, so I can't comment. but i am leaving the porsche world. after owning three 944s including a turbo, i have come to the conclusion they are nothing but maintenance pigs with an outdated suspension design. they do handle well, but my E36 will be more advanced and a funner and more reliable car to drive on the track (at least I hope that's the case
)
12-07-2005, 11:59 PM
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I am a BMW man, recently trying Porsche, DOnt know which way I would go, I love the way the 911's are built, but for years always wanted an M3. I dont know which one handles or would out run the other, but I will say this, Porsches(I am finding out) are must more expensive to fool with.