911 vs 964
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: NY, USA
911 vs 964
Hello. I'm a new 964 owner (1991 C4 coupe) and am very happy with the car; of course!
I have a friend who recently purchased a 1987 911 and another who is comtemplating another 1987.
Each of these were priced similarly to the 91 I've just purchased. This surprises me a bit, but I know that it's difficult to determine the prices for these cars and to account for the market place, condition, passion, etc.
Any way, I'm curious about the differences between the 87'ish 911s and the 89-94 (964) 911s.
Can someone please speak to the differences in the cars, the driveability, handling, response, etc, etc. Basically, I'm curious why someone would choose an 87 over a 91 given similar mileage and very similar price.
No flames here, please!
I'm seriously interested in learning the differences. I am sure there are pros and cons to both cars and can appreciate that someone would prefer the older model. I just don't know the details of why.
Thanks,
Dave
I have a friend who recently purchased a 1987 911 and another who is comtemplating another 1987.
Each of these were priced similarly to the 91 I've just purchased. This surprises me a bit, but I know that it's difficult to determine the prices for these cars and to account for the market place, condition, passion, etc.
Any way, I'm curious about the differences between the 87'ish 911s and the 89-94 (964) 911s.
Can someone please speak to the differences in the cars, the driveability, handling, response, etc, etc. Basically, I'm curious why someone would choose an 87 over a 91 given similar mileage and very similar price.
No flames here, please!
I'm seriously interested in learning the differences. I am sure there are pros and cons to both cars and can appreciate that someone would prefer the older model. I just don't know the details of why.
Thanks,
Dave
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Big difference. Almost totally different cars... compared with 3.2 911, 964 has:
Coil spring suspension
3.6L engine
Power steering
Modern heating/AC...(A/C actually works)
Generally speaking, the 964 is smoother riding, quieter, more powerful, more practical to drive every day, and more expensive to repair and maintain
Older 911 is lighter, sportier, louder, and more physical to drive.
They are both nice cars... its purely a matter of taste... if you're the kind that typically takes the stairs, you probably like the older car.... if you tend to take the escalator, you'll probably prefer the 964
Coil spring suspension
3.6L engine
Power steering
Modern heating/AC...(A/C actually works)
Generally speaking, the 964 is smoother riding, quieter, more powerful, more practical to drive every day, and more expensive to repair and maintain
Older 911 is lighter, sportier, louder, and more physical to drive.
They are both nice cars... its purely a matter of taste... if you're the kind that typically takes the stairs, you probably like the older car.... if you tend to take the escalator, you'll probably prefer the 964
Legacy Flounder
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From: Cumberland, RI
Head leaks on the 964 seems to be a big issue on the early cars, dual-mass flywheel separation too.
964 uses a hydraulic clutch IIRC, shared with the braking system(?); requires an expensive Bosch unit to bleed / flush brakes as I recall.
I looked into buying a 75k miles triple-black '90 C4 Cab prior to picking up my 84 911 Cab. Likes: Tq, smoothness of drive, power top (when working correctly) with 964. Dislikes: AWD system under aggressive cornering. Likes w/ 911: "old school" feel, more raw personality, staggered wheel widths
At the time I was looking to buy the '90, dealer wanted $20k, I offered $17k, they countered $18.5k, I accepted pending a PPI, then they yanked the rug underneath me & sent her to auction instead. I paid $19.5k for my '84 Cab w/ 50k miles & a few small mechanical issues & all scheduled services done; Pricing FWIW.
964 uses a hydraulic clutch IIRC, shared with the braking system(?); requires an expensive Bosch unit to bleed / flush brakes as I recall.
I looked into buying a 75k miles triple-black '90 C4 Cab prior to picking up my 84 911 Cab. Likes: Tq, smoothness of drive, power top (when working correctly) with 964. Dislikes: AWD system under aggressive cornering. Likes w/ 911: "old school" feel, more raw personality, staggered wheel widths
At the time I was looking to buy the '90, dealer wanted $20k, I offered $17k, they countered $18.5k, I accepted pending a PPI, then they yanked the rug underneath me & sent her to auction instead. I paid $19.5k for my '84 Cab w/ 50k miles & a few small mechanical issues & all scheduled services done; Pricing FWIW.
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From: Denver
911 is a more visceral ride with alot less weight and maintenance issues, 964 is faster and far more complex (and has better AC and heat) but not as involving to drive. Try your friend's and see what you make of the differences...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: NY, USA
Trying out my friends car is high on my list. Unfortunately, we're not really that close so I haven't asked to drive his car. Plus, he's just purchased it and may be a bit "protective" of his new toy.
I figure I'll offer mine up for his enjoyment and see if he takes the bait.
Personally, I love letting folks drive my car. There is such a mystique about Porches and most people only dream of driving one. To put them behind the wheel and see their enjoyment and appreciation is fun. Not just anyone, mind you, but those I know and trust.
It also helps them to appreciate what the big smile on my face is all about!
Cheers,
Dave
I figure I'll offer mine up for his enjoyment and see if he takes the bait.
Personally, I love letting folks drive my car. There is such a mystique about Porches and most people only dream of driving one. To put them behind the wheel and see their enjoyment and appreciation is fun. Not just anyone, mind you, but those I know and trust.
It also helps them to appreciate what the big smile on my face is all about!
Cheers,
Dave
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Carlsbad CA
After riding a very fast escalator for 5 yrs (99 C5 6 spd), I'm now taking the stairs (82 911 CS 5 spd), and while slower by certain numbers, the stairs definitely generate much higher numbers re excitatory pulse rate per mile than the escalator ever did. I researched SCs & Carerras and went for the slightly more raw, lighter & purpose built feel of the SC (and no electronics/chip, AC, etc. - all of which gave me problems in the C5). The car revived the adolescent excitement I experienced when I took delivery of my first sports car, a brand new red 48 HP 59 bugeye Sprite - doesn't get more raw than that!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Toronto, Canada
I'm on an escalator and thinking about sometimes taking a ladder. I like my 964 very much but would like to add (someday) an older 911, from a simpler era, without the 964s relative sophistication.
Pricing on these cars is becoming completely dependent on condition, not age, and perceived value. The 964s still have the reputation that they got early on - leaks, flywheel & distributor failures - all these are well known now, and mostly fixed, but the cars have never lived them down. The 3.2s have the reputation of being "bulletproof" so command a bit of a premium over what you might expect. I looked at some 3.2s that were priced higher than my 964, for cars in worse condition. Supply and demand rules.
Pricing on these cars is becoming completely dependent on condition, not age, and perceived value. The 964s still have the reputation that they got early on - leaks, flywheel & distributor failures - all these are well known now, and mostly fixed, but the cars have never lived them down. The 3.2s have the reputation of being "bulletproof" so command a bit of a premium over what you might expect. I looked at some 3.2s that were priced higher than my 964, for cars in worse condition. Supply and demand rules.
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Personally I like the older car (with the big motor), but, the newer suspension and brakes are a vast improvement on the track. The geometry of the suspension is even better on the 993. The power advantage is offset by the heavier weight of the newer car.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2001
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From: WI, US
I'll add my $.02.
I have a 1990 C2 (964). My brother has two Euro spec '83 911SC's, both of which I drive more than my 964. I sold an US version '86 3.2 911 to get the 964.
The 964 pulls like a train and probably has one of the best sounding 911 motors ever built. The older cars are still plenty quick, however you have to coax them just a touch more. The torque of the 3.6 motor in the 964 is there all of the time.
I prefer the older cars for just normal driving around town or touring. Lots of feel, sounds and responses are present from the older cars.. For serious back road driving, the 964 and it's power/torque is more fun for me. Once the 964 is working hard over 4000 rpms, the car sounds fantastic and is a hoot to drive. The 964 is quite a bit more muted at lower revs and during more typical driving.
Like many have said above, it's all personal preference. There are plusses and minuses to each model line.
Jay
90 964
I have a 1990 C2 (964). My brother has two Euro spec '83 911SC's, both of which I drive more than my 964. I sold an US version '86 3.2 911 to get the 964.
The 964 pulls like a train and probably has one of the best sounding 911 motors ever built. The older cars are still plenty quick, however you have to coax them just a touch more. The torque of the 3.6 motor in the 964 is there all of the time.
I prefer the older cars for just normal driving around town or touring. Lots of feel, sounds and responses are present from the older cars.. For serious back road driving, the 964 and it's power/torque is more fun for me. Once the 964 is working hard over 4000 rpms, the car sounds fantastic and is a hoot to drive. The 964 is quite a bit more muted at lower revs and during more typical driving.
Like many have said above, it's all personal preference. There are plusses and minuses to each model line.
Jay
90 964
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Los Angeles
I've got the 'by-the-escalator' motor and the 'by-the-stairs' chassis -- the combination makes it feel like I'm going up by catapult. 
But I've driven both Carreras and 964s on the track. A 964 feels slightly more 'isolated,' but is unquestionably a quicker, more capable car. Then again, compared to pre-1974 911's, the Carreras feel pretty cushy, too.
Like most of the other posters in this thread, I think you've got to drive them both before you decide which one suits you.
But I've driven both Carreras and 964s on the track. A 964 feels slightly more 'isolated,' but is unquestionably a quicker, more capable car. Then again, compared to pre-1974 911's, the Carreras feel pretty cushy, too.
Like most of the other posters in this thread, I think you've got to drive them both before you decide which one suits you.
Track Day
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 20
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From: Las Cruces, NM
I have a SC and I have driven a 964, an RSA. You cant go wrong with either. The 964 would be a more comfortable daily driver, The AC works, even in Southern New Mexico, I really did not notice a big difference with the power steering, maybe the difference in rim size. I love my 3.0, but that 3.6 is an awesome engine, and with the LSD you have to try to break traction. The 911 seems to be more pure sports car, well except my damn leather seats, those suck, especially for track use. The ride is not too rough, but then again my last car, an FC RX-7, had coilovers with no dampening adjustment.
