2002M3Drew

You missed my point entirely, both in spirit and in fact.

In spirit, I was saying how ironic it is that we would all be having this discussion with the 911 being the antagonist, when usually the 911 is the car being maligned by just about every enthusiast group out there. That is not a commentary on 928s at all. In fact, I stated later in my same post that I happen to like 928 cars very much...always have.

With respect to my example, assuming you really did race all of those wonderful cars in your past, you surely understand that what a layman (or car magazine) considers "neutral" would likely be an understeering pig to you and me on the track. Now, put a layman in something you would consider "neutral" or "balanced," and they would probably find the car to be undrivable on the oversteer side. When a car is free, it is fast, and when it's loose, it's a handful, but tight just plain sucks. Point with the 911 is that an older 911 is truly neutral when driven properly...power on, the car plows, but set into a turn, you can power right through. Miss the apex early? Just lift, reset, and go. Very similar to a Formula Ford in that respect. There is a very good reason why purpose built (i.e. non- street car based) race cars are mostly mid or rear-engined designs.

A quote on the 911 by noted Nurburgring test pilot, Walter Rohr:

"A car with a rear engine for somebody who understands something about physics and about driving is the best solution there is."

cobalt

This is what happens when people have a need to look for an argument. As the song goes "Get over it".

papaya9

Either car can be modified to beat the **** out of any other car. 911 oversteer? Put a 150 lb weight in the trunk if it concerns you.

Both cars are beauty and genius combined. Slander among Porschephiles is sacriledge!

JBH

I am not arguing and will not argue merits of one vehicle over another. What interests me most about this thread is the natural right people should have to express their opinion about a car. If someone calls the 911 overweight, sluggish, and ugly I might argue the point. but I certainly would not mount a campaign to have their magazine boycotted or the publishers exorcised as Rennlist sponsors.

I really pains me to know that a few people, so concerned about slander and monetary damage, have done exactly that to individuals that never meant anyone harm. It is perhaps the most grievous and deliberate act of vengeance I have seen in these pages. Now that they have extracted their pound of flesh, I am sure they will slither away.

Mark

THANKEW THANKEW THANKEW.

Our original point EXACTLY!!

928Quest

"This whole thread is pretty ironic as well, as the 911 has been one of the most maligned, mistunderstood, and misdriven cars in sports car history. If I had a nickel for every time some moron with no driving skill whatsoever actually complained about "trailing throttle oversteer," I'd be pretty happy. Neutral to understeer is great for a rainy evening on a dark road, but slow and frustrating as heck on a track. Anyone that has driven an actual race car with a mid or rear engine (like an open-wheeled car) knows the inherent strengths of having that motor back there for braking, acceleration, and most of all, cornering."

If ya can't fix it...feature it.

Adrian

Let me fill you in a little bit.
An editor of a magazine for 911 owners only, based in the UK wrote three words about the 928 "Big and Lazy" not fat either that has been used by said 928 owner.
To the British these words mean something different to an American. Happens all the time in both directions.
One 928 owner took it upon himself not just to make a few comments upon these three words but to launch a personal attack on the editor and the magazine.

The owner of Rennlist stripped the 911 forums that were sponsored by Total911 of their sponsor.

Little note: The words "lesser Porsches" were first used by a 928 owner and Rennlist moderator in December 2004 against ALL other Porsche owners. Of course if a 928 owner says such things it is in fun and jest. These words were the justification for the first attack by said 928 owner on Total911. Three words were used to justify his far more brutal and effective attack this time.

Not content of doing this under the eyes of Rennlist members only, yet again this 928 owner also decided to take his attack into the public forums. The 928 forum and this 911 forum.
Ably supported by other 928 owners (on all three forums), who also started attacking 911 owners and their 911s as well, they stooped to publicly humiliating the editor of the magazine.
Not one moderator has stepped in to stop this. Wonder why?

Leaving it alone on the Off Topic forum would not have been a problem because it is for members only. Allowing these attacks to spill into the public arena and allowing personal humilatiation to continue like this, is a disgrace and a blight against ALL Rennlisters.

Said 928 owner is extremely proud of his new found power. He has the power and the influence to launch these personal attacks against anyone he chooses be they former US Marines, 911 owners, magazine editors or anyone else that gets in his way or does not share his opinion.

Said 928 owner must be really rich because he has offered to pay Rennlist for the sponsorship dollars now lost.

Magazine editors are responsible for what they write. This particular editor is away at the moment. His colleagues tried to explain and were similiarly set upon by these 928 owners. My advice would have been not to make any comment but unfortunately I did not get to them in time.

There are people who do not respect the simple fact that one thing in one country may mean something in another. They refuse to accept the explanation of what "Big and Lazy" means in the English speaking world when related to cars.

Whilst I understand the initial reaction to these three words for some seriously over sensitive people (only to words they do not like, they do not care what they say about or to others), may have appeared as a direct insult. A count to 10 and a deep breath, might have calmed things down. Let me be clear though, This attack on Total911 was always coming. Said 928 owner was just waiting for his chance. This was vengeance of the most vile and repugnant kind.

So the end result is that a 928 owner seemingly has sufficient influence, to control who sponsors ALL Rennlist forums. Sponsors are only entitled to an opinon if that opinion is supported by said 928 owner and his friends. If a sponsor or anyone else for that matter says anything perceived to be against the 928 they will be set upon and thrown out.

There is a lot of anger on Rennlist and I understand if people decide to leave, because this is not a Porsche community of enthusiasts anymore. It is a place of fear where Political correctness towards certain Porsche model owners is paramount.

Adrian.

PS: I only commented on this event because the said 928 owner took his fight off the members only forum and into the public forum and onto a 911 forum.

Phil Raby

I've replied to the thread in the off-topic forum but feel I should point out here that I don't driven a Midget. It's a ZT190 with a lazy V6 engine

Cheers

Adrian

Dear Phil,
The threads in off topic and the 928 forum have been closed by the person who started them. This thread is still open and public.
I recommend you repost it here as well so the public can see your response.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Adrian

Phil Raby

OK, here it is:

Gosh, I've just come back from a few days away to find this!

I wrote the offending words, so I guess I should respond.

I certainly didn't intend to slag off 928s, nor would I want to. As I explained to Doublenuts in a previous PM I actually like them.

'Big and lazy' referred to the size of the car - the 928 IS large, by Porsche standards and by UK standards; you can't get away from that. Lazy is (at least in the UK) a recognised description of a large-capacity (usually V8) engine with bags of torque. It's a nice way for an engine to be, I think. The opposite would be a revvy small-capacity engine that you have rev the bollocks of to get any power from.

Read into the comment what you like, but I know it wasn't meant to be derogatory. Apologies to anyone who thought it was.

Cheers

GMWTUK

UK opinion here guys,

There's a saying.."You can insult my wife, but you don't insult my car".......having read the threads, I realise its bloody well true.
Its already been said, in the UK the 928 is regarded as a big car. It along with most other cars with engines over 3.5 Litres are also sometimes described as "lazy". This generally is understood in UK motoring parlance as being powerful, tractable, comfortable and able to cruise along the speed limit almost on tickover.
Compared to a 911 the 928 is exactly that, its big and lazy.
No one is saying its slow, or its crap, or it handles like a pig in a boat.
Any of you guys heard of Jeremy Clarkson???..now he really know how to insult a car, and could probably do a pretty good job on you wife as well.
As Adrian says, there appears to be a language misinterpretation here and it is a UK magazine.
Cool it guys, they have apologised for what is clearly a misunderstanding. Accept it.

regards
Graham

Previous cars of note:-
Jaguar S Type R (big and lazy and faster than a 928)
Mercedes 280 Sport (fairly big and pretty lazy and quite fast)
Current cars:-
BMW X5 (big and lazy)
Mercedes C200 Komp (not very big or lazy)
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera (**********)

ClubsportSP

Thought I'd cash in on the original reason for this thread!

Issue 1

Only available to UK residents - wouldn't want to offend anyone across the pond...

Interestingly, no-one over here has taken offence to Phil's comments



SP

Caveman

I thought these silly arguments had finished?

Cheers,

David

ClubsportSP

If you're referring to me David, I'm just trying to portray how silly the reaction has been

Anyway....

[end of]

SP