Dan Cobb

I've had issues with my browser not opening random websites (part of my higher internet security settings no doubt), but the site was apparently down when I tried.
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84_Carrera

Visited the site this morning, interesting. Loved the sound clips!

84_Carrera

Dan, after running for a day or so on the Fabspeed Euro PM / Muffler Bypass and then installing the Bursch...

The Bursch leaves a lot to be desired. If I hadn't gone to the bypass first, I probably would have said to try it out because of the cost.

Notes on the Bursch:
1) ANNOYING paint burnoff odors
2) Mounting Bracket is JUST a smudge off making installation a little tricky & also wants to have the tailpipe making contact with the rear valence / bumper on the top.
3) It's a POS Dynomax muffler. Whoop-de-do.
4) Mine came with no instructions. It was easy enough to figure out, but I had to remove the hose clamps & crossover tubing to get the 2 long bolts that held the stock muffler bracket in.

It'll still pop and has a meaner than stock sound, but it isn't nearly as awe-inspiring as the Fabspeed setup I had, if only for a day. FYI, that sucker gets HOT (bypass pipe). It's already heat-discolored, not pretty stainless anymore.

r911

It never changes -- stock, Monty or maybe mb911 (Ben).

84_Carrera

Sorry Randy, I'm relatively new to the community, and there was no way in hell I was spending $1k on a MUFFLER, so I thought I'd try out the $200 eBay Bursch. I prefer it to stock, so I'm ok with the choice so long as the dyno says it's ok.

Thing is, I see a lot of posts in the 911 community where people are saying "try this", but not explicitly voicing negative opinions about things they've tried. I have no problem saying when something's crapola, but only when I've bought it & worked with it first. I see posts like "some mufflers will actually cost you power" - well, how about NAMING them so us noobs don't go down that road?

I'm not singling you out, don't get me wrong, but it's exciting getting into a new motoring community & learning what's what, but frustrating when people who've been there & done that don't want to spell it out for you. I'm happy to listen, but don't be surprised if I ask "why" also.

The wife's camping with my son, so I'm off to get a really good night's sleep.

Ed Hughes

Spend $600 on the Fabspeed muffler kit, and the $1300 for the B&B headers, it will sound AWESOME and run well, and save anumber of pounds

r911

Well, I thought I did spell it out...

Also, I don't think I'd want to do w/o heat in RI - despite Ed H's comment.

Why don't you read the posts on Ben's muffler. It's half the price of a Monty. Search Pelican. I have not seen any dyno data on it, but folks rave about the sound.

For real data, Start with Bruce Anderson's book, read various posts (carefully) and see what you think. The only one that I know has good dyno data and is not a loud sport muffler or the stock muffler is the Monty. FWIW, Steve W. sells them but he's on the other side of the US from you.

Feel free to single me out - I don't see much use in $300 valve covers either...

Dan Cobb

Money spent well, is money well spent. I'm awaiting the dyno results brfore I make any decision on exhaust combos other than 100% stock.
I've read and heard so many differing opinions, that I'm going to consider the HP data as my selling point rather than opinion.
I'll also need to take CA smog into consideration, and mounting. I don't want a $1,000 exhaust setup falling off on the freeway (like some I've heard about).

BTW, Fred...
The ones that I have heard huge nagative feedback on include your $300 Bursch system. They apparently have little or no strength to the mounting tabs and constantly require new welds to hold tem together. The paint will burn/bubble/peel away and leave you with a $300 piece of rust, that is likely to last 3-5 years at best.
Not to mention that I've heard they sound like a burning turd on a 3.2l engine, but they are well suited for the earlier cars, especially track cars because they are a bit louder than most want for the street.
I've read/heard that B&B & GHL systems are great if they can stay welded together. I'm not risking that much $$ for something that has a poor or even questionable histroy of build quality.
I don't want to be a beta tester at my expense.
Dansk is the OEM supplier for Carreras. I have heard/read great things about their fit (they use the factory mounting straps, points, etc.) and I have heard they are of the highest build quality (possibly aside from their painted model) and that they sound great, are a weight savings over the original, and not too loud for most people.

Until I get some data on the system from the Pelican thread, I'm not willing to be paitent #0 (or even #10!) there either.
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84_Carrera

OK. From past personal experience with Dynocrap, the muffler will likely rot out earlier than you figured (typically rots from the inside out due to condensation on other cars I've had, and usually with in ~2-3 years). I don't know about the tubing, however - Dynomax's kits have crud for tubing, which usually rots out faster than the muffler. When installing on a SHO, I tell people "plan on 2 years" here in the northeast.

Yeah, I've seen the "discussions" about the IA covers Randy.

It's been my observation here that folks in general are more worried about being politically correct than being explicit in their hands-on experiences & opinions about products though. It makes for a more polite forum (which is nice, coming from one invaded by 17-25yo guys who are buying the used SHOs now), but tends to gloss the truth a little.

It's supposed to be close to 100° today, so I'd rather not dyno today if possible, depending on the guy's schedule, but would like to get back in there sooner than later to get numbers nailed down.

EDIT: Dyno time's scheduled for Wenesday evening.

Thanks all for your continued advice, opinions & background on the cars & issues. Much appreciated.

RoninLB

low on bucks = used Monty

Ed Hughes

Randy-B&B's are available with or w/o heat, one of the reasons I went with them.

r911

a good stainless steel will prevent that rust problem

Do some searches on Pelican - there has been a lot of discussion there. I'd pay close attention to people with expertise (Steve W. is one and specifically warned you about certain brands right here - you don't need more info on that). I always try to characterize things that are not in my personal knowledge (e.g. so & so says; or folks say - when I cite to a so& so (named indiv.) then it's somebody of known expertise; "folks" is just general comments - maybe they are expert, but I don't know that).

When doing a search, you'll need to winnow the wheat from the chaff.

There are also some Pelican threads re who has expertise - so search on expert and pull those up -- note that not everybody knows every topic or area well, and there is expertise in different "ways" -- a fastener expert might not know mufflers, a fluid dynamics expert might not know the details of 911 exhausts even tho he could do a bang up job on that if suitably motivated. Some have long experience, others represent race oriented shops that may or may not do much 'regular' Pcar work, others have 'regular' Pcar repair shops, some guys have torn down a 911 to almost tiny peices and reweleded the whole car... etc.
Besides Steve, the other expert here who is not on Pelican or only rarely so, is Peter Z. I may have forgotten some too.

So - there you go... Good Luck.

r911

Oh yeh - to me, buying Ben's muffler would be an experiment. But if it didn't dyno well (and you don't have MFI so it should be ok) you can sell it and only be out maybe $100 - $150.

To restate - the Monty is a sure thing. So what is the amount of $$ you are willing to pay for a risk premium? I think that's the real question.

Dan Cobb

You hit the bullseye Randy (again!).
I've been lead to believe that there is little genuine HP gain to be found through just adding a street legal exhaust to a factory motor.
That being said, I will assume that most sport mufflers will be comparable in that area, whereas they will quite likely differ dramatically in the sound/amount of noise they generate.

The $$ spent on a sport muffler is basically going towards obtaining a non-stock (i.e. more aggressive?!) sound.
I'd like to obtain that benefit while not introducing an increase in the headache/nightmare to install and own catagory.
This reduces the field of competitors to only a few candidates.
BTW, I'm still waiting to learn/hear more on the MK muffler from Ben.
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r911

For a 3.2L I think you can pick up a few ponies with a good chip, equalizing the intake flow among the runners (that drilling mud stuff) and SSIs or equal + muffler. Steve W. has posted on that or can sell you the items. I'd bet TRE or somebody down there could too. It's not cheap to add hp to a 911 (the mid-1970s cars are 'cheapest') - when you buy a 911 you are buying a detuned race car, not a Ford or Chevy, so there is not much to do to it.