Thinking of buying a '75 911S
05-14-2005, 06:03 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thinking of buying a '75 911S
Hello folks, I'm new 'round these parts. Years ago, I owned a '77 924 that eventually gave up the ghost, and I've been looking at other Porsches recently, including another 924, a 928, and the newest find....
I came across a 1975 911S and was wondering what sort of things I should be looking out for?
84,000 original miles, I was told. I'm betting it's more though.
Exterior of car is pretty clean looking. No obvious cancer, nice glass. Interior of car is a little ratty looking, but not terrible. Passenger door panel needs work, and a few other things that seem easy enough.
But mechanically, what sort of things should I beware of? Car starts, but I didn't get a chance to test drive it (it was blocked in by many other cars)
Engine seems a little oily.
I didn't hear any obvious knocking and pinging, but then again, I've got a head cold curently and my hearing is wonky. I didn't see any smoke when revving.
How's maintenance costs on a car like this? How about costs on parts prone to failure?
If I move forward with it, I'd seriously consider getting it compression tested first. Anyone know what the tests should be reading, and what other tests should I think about before buying?
And finally, what is an "acceptable" average price on a car in "decent" but not "great" shape? They want $7,000 for it.
Thank you.
I came across a 1975 911S and was wondering what sort of things I should be looking out for?
84,000 original miles, I was told. I'm betting it's more though.
Exterior of car is pretty clean looking. No obvious cancer, nice glass. Interior of car is a little ratty looking, but not terrible. Passenger door panel needs work, and a few other things that seem easy enough.
But mechanically, what sort of things should I beware of? Car starts, but I didn't get a chance to test drive it (it was blocked in by many other cars)
Engine seems a little oily.
I didn't hear any obvious knocking and pinging, but then again, I've got a head cold curently and my hearing is wonky. I didn't see any smoke when revving.
How's maintenance costs on a car like this? How about costs on parts prone to failure?
If I move forward with it, I'd seriously consider getting it compression tested first. Anyone know what the tests should be reading, and what other tests should I think about before buying?
And finally, what is an "acceptable" average price on a car in "decent" but not "great" shape? They want $7,000 for it.
Thank you.
05-14-2005, 06:55 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Hi Wolfe - welcome to the forum.
Lots of threads on this vintage of 911 - suggest a 'search' will find more reading material than you can cope with! If you go back a couiple of pages you will find a similar question with lots of comments. THe 2.7 unit was not Porsche's best.
I have a European spec. '76 so very similar but I don't have the dreaded thermal reactors. To overcome US emissions legislation Porsche increased the working temperature of the 2.7 unit which gave rise to many problems. Head studs pulling out is one problem and costly to rectify - the problem with these engines is once you start it's difficult to know where to stop. All 911 engines can leak oil, some leaks are easier to fix than others - a number require engine out and in extreme cases a split crankcase.
A compression test and decay test will help decide the state of the engine - also look at the dipstick, check the oil level and look at the state of the oil. What sort of maintenance history is being offered? Without a reasonable history I would walk - these cars can eat money. You may be buying a relatively inexpensive car but spare part costs reflect the current cost of a 911 - nothing is cheap (although generally cheaper on your side of the pond - I often import parts, it's worth it even with post and tax). Check to ensure 1984 pressure fed tensioners are fitted.
Just restored my engine after 104,000 miles, it required new barrels and pistons (alusil barrels so couldn't hone them), camshafts, rockers, rocker shafts, adjusters, cam chains, slippers, time-certs for new head studs, shuffle pinned crank case, crank grind - wow it just went on and on.
PJC
Lots of threads on this vintage of 911 - suggest a 'search' will find more reading material than you can cope with! If you go back a couiple of pages you will find a similar question with lots of comments. THe 2.7 unit was not Porsche's best.
I have a European spec. '76 so very similar but I don't have the dreaded thermal reactors. To overcome US emissions legislation Porsche increased the working temperature of the 2.7 unit which gave rise to many problems. Head studs pulling out is one problem and costly to rectify - the problem with these engines is once you start it's difficult to know where to stop. All 911 engines can leak oil, some leaks are easier to fix than others - a number require engine out and in extreme cases a split crankcase.
A compression test and decay test will help decide the state of the engine - also look at the dipstick, check the oil level and look at the state of the oil. What sort of maintenance history is being offered? Without a reasonable history I would walk - these cars can eat money. You may be buying a relatively inexpensive car but spare part costs reflect the current cost of a 911 - nothing is cheap (although generally cheaper on your side of the pond - I often import parts, it's worth it even with post and tax). Check to ensure 1984 pressure fed tensioners are fitted.
Just restored my engine after 104,000 miles, it required new barrels and pistons (alusil barrels so couldn't hone them), camshafts, rockers, rocker shafts, adjusters, cam chains, slippers, time-certs for new head studs, shuffle pinned crank case, crank grind - wow it just went on and on.
PJC
05-14-2005, 07:08 AM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by pjc
Hi Wolfe - welcome to the forum....etc...PJC
I'll be doing some forum searching very shortly. Interesting problems you noted there. I was also told something about oil return through pushrods being a problem (if I heard him right...)
Maintenance cost is somewhat of an issue if stuff must be done frequently, as I've got a small business that eats up most of my funds. It's one of the reasons I'm looking at the 924 and the main reason I dodged on the 928 (was told maint costs were outrageous). When I owned my '77, I was homeless and still managed to maintain it till the harness fried. (Hey, If I'm gunna be homeless, I might as well do it in style, right?
)Although, I do have the feeling I'll be checking this car out again, if not just for the test drive.
05-14-2005, 07:30 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Wolfe,
A couple of oil related mods are carried out on these engines - oil by-pass mod which stops oil being dumped into the carnkcase and is re-routed to the inlet of the oil pump (Porsche started this mod in about mid '76) and a restrictor on the camshaft end feed (believe this is a 911 Turbo retro) - both are supposed to help oil pressure but have to confess I didn't add the restrictor as I was concerned about reducing flow to the camshafts.
You are right to look again - look and drive as many as possible, it's the only way to build up knowledge. If a car has a good maintenance history you will soon see the average cost of running one of Porsche's finest - good hunting.
PJC
A couple of oil related mods are carried out on these engines - oil by-pass mod which stops oil being dumped into the carnkcase and is re-routed to the inlet of the oil pump (Porsche started this mod in about mid '76) and a restrictor on the camshaft end feed (believe this is a 911 Turbo retro) - both are supposed to help oil pressure but have to confess I didn't add the restrictor as I was concerned about reducing flow to the camshafts.
You are right to look again - look and drive as many as possible, it's the only way to build up knowledge. If a car has a good maintenance history you will soon see the average cost of running one of Porsche's finest - good hunting.
PJC
05-14-2005, 02:48 PM
#5
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On the 2.7 engines you must check to see that the head studs have been replaced. If they have not, the engine needs it done yesterday, and it is not cheap. Also it must have the updated Carrera chain tensioners, make sure the rubber center clutch has been replaced, and turbo valve covers are usually needed. If there is not documentation that this work has been carried out by a reliable shop, then $7k is way too much money for this car, especially if the interior is ratty as well. If these issues have been addressed, and the car has been properly maintained in general, they can be very reliable, and not need much besides basic tune up/maintenance.
It is well worth it to; in fact don’t buy the car without, having a shop of YOUR choosing do a Pre Purchase Inspection. Let us know where you are from, and I'm sure somebody on here will know a good shop in your area. A good Porsche mechanic going over the car and letting you know what it needs is well worth the couple hundred bucks it costs. Little things add up quickly on these cars, and be sure to factor in a couple grand to be spent on it shortly after purchase, especially if it is to be a daily driver. Even if it has been well maintained, with relatively low miles like that, once it is put into commission as a daily driver issues will present themselves. This is simply because sitting cars develop issues, such as seals drying out, batteries dieing and so forth. Expect to do a full tune up when you get it, including valve set, oil/filter change, setting timing, new plugs and probably wires. If you can do your own work, this tune up is pretty inexpensive. Remember to check the tires, often cars that have been sitting for a long time will have good tread, but the rubber will be dried out and cracked and need replacing.
If the PPI checks out, it has had a recent documented tune up, and the interior is the only thing wrong with the car, $7k might be a fair price. Odds are though that the car will need SOMETHING else, they always do. I would start with a price closer to $5-6k, and deduct from there depending on what the inspection shows.
Good luck with your search! Be sure to look at and drive many different cars so you know what’s out there, and always ask questions.
It is well worth it to; in fact don’t buy the car without, having a shop of YOUR choosing do a Pre Purchase Inspection. Let us know where you are from, and I'm sure somebody on here will know a good shop in your area. A good Porsche mechanic going over the car and letting you know what it needs is well worth the couple hundred bucks it costs. Little things add up quickly on these cars, and be sure to factor in a couple grand to be spent on it shortly after purchase, especially if it is to be a daily driver. Even if it has been well maintained, with relatively low miles like that, once it is put into commission as a daily driver issues will present themselves. This is simply because sitting cars develop issues, such as seals drying out, batteries dieing and so forth. Expect to do a full tune up when you get it, including valve set, oil/filter change, setting timing, new plugs and probably wires. If you can do your own work, this tune up is pretty inexpensive. Remember to check the tires, often cars that have been sitting for a long time will have good tread, but the rubber will be dried out and cracked and need replacing.
If the PPI checks out, it has had a recent documented tune up, and the interior is the only thing wrong with the car, $7k might be a fair price. Odds are though that the car will need SOMETHING else, they always do. I would start with a price closer to $5-6k, and deduct from there depending on what the inspection shows.
Good luck with your search! Be sure to look at and drive many different cars so you know what’s out there, and always ask questions.
05-15-2005, 02:11 AM
#6
The Ancient One
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Compare it with a car that is going for $5K more and you will likley see why the price ti at $7K.
Sadly, it is very easy to put another $14K into a car that will be worht $12K TOPS.
The market for 2.7 (pre-SC) cars is genrally $2500-$4000 LESS than later years of similar quality.
Is this difference justified across the board? Probably not a fair question, as vehicle condition amd maintenance history play such an important role in 911 pricing, (& justifiably so!)
My point is that if this car needs the work previously mentioned, it could easily run $4000 to do it all.
This means that you have put $11K into a 2.7 911, when you could very likely invest $12-$14K into a clean, documented 3.0 or 3.2.
Oh, yeah... PPI, PPI, PPI!
++++
Sadly, it is very easy to put another $14K into a car that will be worht $12K TOPS.
The market for 2.7 (pre-SC) cars is genrally $2500-$4000 LESS than later years of similar quality.
Is this difference justified across the board? Probably not a fair question, as vehicle condition amd maintenance history play such an important role in 911 pricing, (& justifiably so!)
My point is that if this car needs the work previously mentioned, it could easily run $4000 to do it all.
This means that you have put $11K into a 2.7 911, when you could very likely invest $12-$14K into a clean, documented 3.0 or 3.2.
Oh, yeah... PPI, PPI, PPI!
++++