ChemMan

What exactly is a top end overhaul? Is it the same thing as an engine rebuild?

r911

It is a subset of a complete overhaul and involves the heads, their sub-components, pistons, etc.

Excluded are the oil pump and crank and its bearings.

Peter Zimmermann

Michael: My shop always used the following terminology in every engine repair, for no other reasons than consistency and to avoid confusion.
1. "Top end": Describes engine repairs from the cylinder heads up. Usually it is confined to only a valve job, which can involve new valves, new valve guides, new valve springs and stem seals. It also usually includes doing anything necessary to the timing chain tensioners, chain guides, etc. Variations of the "Top end" are possible: (a) Top end with piston and cylinder work (anything from measuring, to re-ringing to replacement); or (b) Top end with head studs or top end with piston/cylinder work and head studs; or (c) Top end with piston and cylinder/head stud and rod bearing replacement. I know, it's confusing, but every engine is different, and will require different repairs/updates,etc.
2. "Rebuild": All of the above plus the bottom end (crankcase, connecting rods, wrist pin bushings, intermediate shaft/bushings, timing chains, linebore if necessary, rod bearings, main bearings, and anything else that might need attention). Thousands of dollars can separate the above classified jobs. If someone tells you he spent a whopping $3500 to have his 911 engine "rebuilt", laugh. Better yet, run away while laughing. Of course the most estimate-damaging components in an engine are the piston & cylinder set. They might keep a rebuild in the $10K range, or push it up into the $13K range. All "top end" and "rebuild" claims must be supported with invoices so all parts and labor items can be analyzed.
Randy: Sorry to get long-winded here...
Pete

r911

No, I think it's good to point out variations.

And important -- he needs to be sure he knows what his shop means ...

ChemMan

Thank you. This is very helpful.

82Targa

Peter, you state that you cannot get a rebuild for $3500. Motor Meister has rebuilds listed on their site for around $3500 (3.0). Are they being deceptive?

fixnprsh

you can't get a rebuild that will last as long as the original, or run as well for $3500, I'm up to $11,000 in parts and machining and my motor isn't even back together yet, and I do that myself! but than again, it will be better than factory with some more power too.

BER

Go to Pelican's 911 board and do a search on Motor Meister. A lot of your questions about their quality and cost have already been discussed in detail on that board.

ChemMan

Is only having the top end done a bad thing? Is it sort of a short cut?

g-50cab

Definitely a short cut - but you may not need to open up a bottom end.

Norske

I had 240K on my 72 E when I did the rebuild. We only had to polish the crank. the only reason we split the case was because I built it to 2.7 RS specs and we needed to install a few extra squirters I think.

JCP911S

"Top end" rebuild is not a shortcut. Porsche main bearings and crank ("Bottom end") are very robust. "Cracking the case" (e.g. doing main bearings) is a $3K excercise so why do it if the bearings and oil pump are fine.

$3,500 total rebuild sounds like a great deal.... also I know a guy who will do any brain surgery for $399.95... another great deal. Or you can spend $29.99 on Timing Chain Rebuld in a Can.

fixnprsh

hay eye no tha guy hoo duz dat $399 srain burgery, tern out ok fer da price


Seriously, there is nothing wrong with doing just a top end on a well taken care of car, BUT with how Carreras and turbos are with their rod bearings and bolts, I would do the bottom end too if it has the slightest look of neglect or abuse, I like insurance and piece of mind. But its your money and car, some rods never go, some at 180K (like mine) or 75K like the last 930 motor I did

pjc

I guess it depends what you want for your bucks and what you have to spend on the top end - in the middle of a '76, 2.7 rebuild and EVERYTHING that wears has worn! Camshafts, rockers, Alusil cylinders (so new piston and barrel set), valves etc. so no way was the crankcase going to remain closed. Needed a slight regrind on the crank but the intermediate shaft and oil pump was OK - of course the oil by-pass mod was done and the case shuffle pinned, time-certs (didn't like the look of the case savers - too much metal to remove) and studs - wow it gets expensive!

PJC