Hi guys, I'm fairly new to the porsche scene. Heard about this forum from www.bimmerforums.com

We have a 911 Carrera with a non-working AC, after some digging around, we traced the problem down to a feron leak in the hose that is attached to the "hood." however, we're unable to pinpoint where exactly on the hose the leak is. I was wondering if this is a common problem, if there is a DIY fix to it.

Also, is it possible to convert the entire AC system to use the newer feron?

Thanks.

 

This shop has information on freon conversions:

http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/911ac/index.html

The AC system for your car has parts spread all over the place. This includes under the front bumper, in the smugglers box in the trunk, in the front left wheelwell and in the engine compartment. There is about 20 feet of hosing.

 

I would suspect that the crimped fitting on the hose above the compressor may be the location. That's where mine was leaking. Replace the hose. However, have a competent A/C guy look it over and check it out completely. You may have more leaks and not know it.

 

they ALL leak due to all the rubber lines, replace the badly leaking ones, then convert to R134A and just get it topped up every spring. I'm debating wether or not to ditch mine altogether along with the heating, but I'm not sure if I want to go that far

 

If you get under your car, you'll see yards of black a/c hose. If it's the original hose, it's what's known as "non-barrier" hose. In the old days, before concerns about global warming and ozone depletion, when R12 was cheap, the hoses were designed to "weep" freon a bit. If you're serious about your a/c system, the thing to do is replace all of the a/c hoses with barrier hose. Barrier hose does not leak, and your expensive and environmentally unfriendly R12 will stay in the system. I bought my hoses from Griffiths, and they were spendy. Many people have had good luck buying barrier hose in bulk, and then having a local hose or a/c shop crimp the ends on.

If you do not want to go that route, then your best bet is to probably fix the one leaking hose, and then do an R134a conversion. R134a is not as effective as R12, but it does not harm the ozone, and is less expensive than R12. In fact, you can buy R134a at your local Kragen or Autozone. For maximum cooling with R134a, you should probably take it to your local a/c shop for the conversion. They'll recover any R12 still in the system, evacuate the system, and recharge it to proper specs.

The good news is that you have the Nippondenso compressor, which first appeared in the 84. The older, York, compressors were worthless.

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the replies guys.

How hard is it to replace the majority of the hosing? simple yank and replug, or do i really have to dig deep? I haven't really worked on the porsche before, as it is a fairly recent purchase.

I'm debating right now whether to just replaces all the hosing, make sure nothing's leaking, then recharge R12 or if I should fully convert the entire system to R134a, which do you think would be cheaper in the long run?

A price quote for a R12 recharge from a local shop was several hundred dollars

Also, would anyone happen to know a good porsche specific shop around the sacramento / davis area?

Thanks a lot.

 

It's not difficult to replace the hoses, but it takes time. You have to get the car up on jackstands, and crawl around underneath. It's a messy job, too, but one that is very satisfying when you're done.

My understanding is that 134a is getting more and more expensive. Given the cost of the hoses, though, you'll probably spend less money on fixing the one leaky hose, and recharging periodically. I wanted a good, sealed, R12 system, so I replaced all the hoses, cleaned out the evaporator, added a ProCooler, added an auxilary condenser and fan, and now get vent temps in the high 30s.

Check this thread for lots of referrals to Sacramento mechanics: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ramento+mobile

(Also, don't forget to try the search function here. It'll save you time.)

 

scottb: You said it all and said it well. So few people understand what they're getting into with the approximately 40 feet of hose in the car, the condensers, the cleaning, the noisy evarporator housing fans, the barrier hose issue... I've seen a lot of disappointed 911 owners who replaced one hose, refilled the system only to have warm air from the vents a month later. I can't endorse 134 because when I sold my shop there were no quality conversion answers, but I appreciate your environmental concerns, which I share. At the time we were doing recovery, full hose replacements, a receiver/dryer and a refill and test. Often the job would go over $2K - whew!
Pete

 

R134 is so expensive nowadays due to that big *** dam in China, It is using atleast over 1/2 the worlds freon supply to cool the concrete so it doesn't take 100 or so years to do so naturally. Seriously.

 

You might want to try to just replace the leaking hose then charge it with Duracool. I think it is propane. I recharged my A/C ever year with it for the two times I used the a/c every summer. Do a search under "Duracool" and you will find some websites that describe it in much more detail. In the end, I removed the A/C when the Compressor started leaking.

 

When did Porsche stop using non-barrier hoses?

My 86 BMW must have barrier hoses, I haven't recharged the freon in 5 years and it still blows very cold through the AC.

So by 86, BMW was apparently using barrier hose, I assume?

Porsche still was using non-barrierin the mid 80s?

 

I just contacted Griffith's today, a full barrier hose set with drier is $616 you weren't kidding when you said they were spendy, but a full conversion kit to R134a only costs $49... am I missing something there, he was relucent to tell me what was included in the kit.

How badly is the "normal" leaking on the non-barrier hoses? If it's not that bad, I'm thinking about just replacing the one leaking hose and doing the R134a conversion and recharging when needed.

 

Keep in mind that R134a will leak more easily than R12 since the molecules are smaller. IN other words, if you had a small leak with R12, you will have a big leak with R134a.

 

Noel, other than your car having more parts, the operating concept is the same as my car,so I hope my experience will help you.

The AC shop I use here has a book from one of their suppliers that lists every change required to convert to R134. Somtimes this is very simple, sometimes it involves condensers, seals and other parts.

In my case, I only needed a new receiver/dryer (Wich would be about $50.00) according to the chart.

I did find that the R134 was not as cold as the R12, but though it took longer to cool a hot car off from the start, was fine when crusiing, even in traffic. Oh, I have a rotary compressor in place of the original York one-lunger.

However, some years later, the system needed a top-up, which is a normal consequence of a 25 year old system and sitting all winter without turning the compressor--The shaft seal can leak when not used.

A friend of mine that has a service center used a Wurth product to top up the system. This product (sorry don't know the name or number) contains some R134, a dye tracer, and a "conditioner" that supposedly improves the performance of R134, all in a 6 Oz. can. I was skeptical, but it worked! The car cools faster when hot, and the vent temp is much lower. YRMV.

 

just take it off, If it blows cold, its not very cold or very hard anyway, plus the compressor, condensor lines and bracketry in the back alone weigh a good 40 pounds, more if its an older car with a York compressor. Its a sports car first, luxury second, function over form. If its hot, drive the Bimmer.

I remove them all the time, just put the parts in a box, and ditch the heater too, makes the engine bay look much nicer IMO