wdasilva

just want your guys' opinion. im in the process of looking to buy my first porsche at 20yrs old. i was thinking of getting a 70's-80's 911, but with my research on the net i think im going for a 964, probably a carrera 2. i heard this is one of the most aerodynamic porsches. it has the styling of newer porsches, yet its an affordable car. just want your guys' opinion on whether im making the right decision. all i need is a test drive

JackOlsen

The 964 is one of the best bargains in the 911 family. Its styling is less popular (with some people) than the variations that came before and after it, and it enjoys and undeserved reputation for some problems with some early models. There are a few things you need to check out -- some 1990 and 1991 motors had a cylinder head seal issue, and there are a few other potential problem areas (dual mass flywheel, power steering pump, distibutor drive belt) that need to be addressed in a shop's pre-purchase inspection. But if you get all of that checked out, you can get a heck of a lot of 911 for the money. The torque of the 3.6 liter motor in it stands out from the crowd of previous 911 powerplants.

Bill Gregory

You're doing the right thing by researching and seeking opinions. Having owned both a 1981 911SC and a 1993 964, I'd have to say that the 964 is more modern, yet still 911, in most every way. As Jack pointed out, the 3.6L engine is wonderful. You may want to read the 964 FAQ here and the 911SC FAQ on tech.rennlist.com for additional information on both lines. Peter Zimmermann's book on buying a used Porsche 911 should be required reading, and Bruce Anderson has some good, net discussion monthly in Excellence magazine on various Porsche models. www.porsche964.co.uk is an excellent 964 web site. Adrian Streathers book on 964's has in depth coverage on 964's.

You may want to consider joining the Porsche Club of America, as that gets you a ticket into many activities with other Porsche owners, plus the monthly Panorama magazine, and regional publications. You can look at the region closest to you by going to www.pca.org, on the right side click on 'regions' and then your area of the country (assuming, of course, you're in the US. Outside the US there are similar clubs).

JCP911S

964 is a very nice car...still alot of traditional 911 feel but with modern A/C, power steering, sweet transmission and very torquey powerful engine. It is absolutely a car you can drive every day with no excuses for comfort.

Downside is loss of some of the raw, direct mechanical edge of the earlier 911, and higher maintenance costs. However, maintenance intervals are longer so it might balance out. Motor and trans work will definately be much more than an SC/Carrara. Plus you may be exposed to more depreciation... 964 has not yet found its market floor IMHO... although you probably won;t get killed on it like you would on a newer 911 or Boxster.

BTW, if you do decide on a C2, a friend of mine has a beautiful one for sale in Philly area... one of the nicest cars you will see.

Trader220

JCP911s would you drop me an email with a bit more info about that 964 and where in the Philly area its located? trader220@comcast.net

ltc

Have you researched insurance rates? Up here in Boston Taxachusetts, I would be willing to bet your insurance would be $3K/yr and up, just based on your age and choice of marque.
(of course, if I were 20, I'd get the Porsche and give up hot meals if necessary. I had to wait to 39, big regrets)

Is there a good plastic surgeon nearby
I only ask since I'm willing to bet that after your test drive, you will have a permanent grin, which you may or may not want to have fixed!

Best of luck.

wdasilva

thanks everyone for the valuable advice.

Doug&Julie

If you haven't already, spend some time on the 964 board on this site. There are a lot of them and they'll be happy to answer any more questions. It's a great sub-community.

Edward

Another vote for the 964. The "lack of a raw edge" is not a negative ...just depends what you're looking for. The 964 is still very much a 911 with direct feedback and a wonderful engine ...just more "insulated" than the earlier cars, and has vastly better HVAC, IMHO. The coilovers are also a plus (again, IMHO).

Just make sure that you get a good PPI from someone who knows 964s well as some of these cars had some oil leak and flywheel issues, none of which are a problem if already addressed and documented. I don't believe they are necessarily any more costly to maintain than earlier cars, especailly if you are a DIYer. Good luck on the hunt and post pics when you get one!

Edward

JCP911S

Yes the more refined nature of the 964 isn't a bad thing at all... just a matter of taste... i just enjoy more vintage cars because they are a break from normal day to day, but the 964 is definately the more comfortable day to day car but still quite sporty and considerably faster than a 3.2

wdasilva

what do yall mean about the "raw edge of earlier porsches"

Curt911

the best way to understand this is to drive both and compare... the pre-964 911 has more of a race car feel IMHO, although I too am looking to sell my Carrera and go to a 964, but I want a C4, had one before and miss it

Jay H

To expand on Curt's comments above... The 964 was made to be a quieter, more civilized and more comfortable 911 to appeal to a wider market of buyers. More insulation was added to quiet the engine compartment and interior. It was designed to be more aerodynamic to reduce wind noise. Shift effort was reduced even a bit more than the G-50 transmission equiped 3.2 Carrera's. More safety equipment became available or was made standard such as ABS, all wheel drive and air bags. The first automatic transmission on a 911 was made available in 1990. Power assisted steering was made available for the first time on a 911 with the 964 series. All these "improvements" added weight, so 964's feel heavier than earlier 911's.

The ventilation system was improved with somewhat easier to use controls (though still not up to modern car standards) instead of the very basic & archaic ventilation controls on earlier carsr. Old school torsion bar suspensions were 'retired' in favor of coil over suspension.

Many of us (including myself) really miss the older feel and sounds of the 3.2 and prior 911's and some of these "improvements" that were done to the 964 series may or may not appeal to everyone. The 964 series is the last of the truely hand built 911's and build quality is excellent and on par with the fit and finish of the earlier 911's. Materials, gaps and tolerances are exceptional. I would bet Porsche could never afford to build such a car now and make the huge profits they enjoy now. Our own Adrian claims that the 964 was the last 911 built for the enthusiast market.

In the end, it's really all about what you are looking for in a 911. The 964 retains all of the earlier car's raw cues and sounds, but they are more isolated from the driver and it takes a bit more to extract those cues. However, the 964 is still very fun to drive (the 3.6 has excellent torque) and when the tach is over 4000 and you're on a curvy backroad at 9/10th's (of your ability or the car's ability), it's a hell of a lot of fun.

You gotta drive both to see what you prefer.

Good Luck,

Jay
90 964

JCP911S

The "raw edge" of the earlier cars comes from three things.

First, no power steering. Steering on the earler cars is full of feedback both good and bad. Plus it is heavier, requiring you to be more physical and involved with the car. Same with the 915 trans... requires alot more effort and attention to shift properly.

Second, the cars are lighter... they are more "tossable" but also do not ride as smoothly.

Third, the cars have less sound deadening and creature comforts... you hear all the mechanicals working and are more involved somehow.

This is very much a matter of perception

GG Allin

All the talk tells me the RS America is one of the best 964s out there.