mmasse

Ok, this is my big project for this year. I currently live in Switzerland but I am moving to the US in 1 month. I owned now 964 (1992) Carrera 4, which I am selling (too expensive to convert to US standards - EPA and DOT)

So, after doing lots of research and considering my pasion for playing around with my cars, I decided to buy an early 911 (before '80) and transplant a 993 Vaioram engine (I have to recognize that some of the posts on this forum are quite responsible for this decision)

So here are some question for the experts on this issue.
Is there any advantage on buying an SC versus a earlier 911, for carrying on this convertion?
What should I get from the "donor" car besides the engine. Do I need the ECU? What about the wiring?

I am planning on buying the Instant-g convertion kit, once in the US.

I would greatly appreciate any cost figure that you estimate for this project. I am particularly interesting in all what is not obvious. I mean, I know how I have budgeted for the car, engine, and convertion kit, but what else should I consider for doing this job right?

Thanks a lot in advance.

pat911

I think an SC would be a great starting point. I would get the engine, ECU and the wiring harness that runs from the engine sensors to the ECU. The vario ram is a fuel injection induction system so retaining the ECU and wiring harness are very important. You could take the vario ram off and just runs carbs straight into the heads but drivability would suffer and you probably wouldn't gain in HP. I'm sure fuel pressures will have to be normalized to the newer injection system as well. LOng story short get as much as possible from the donor car (fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, ALL induction pieces from the air filter to the heads, O2 sensors, even the exhaust to remain legal). With slight massaging the 993 3.6's can easily put out a reliable 300HP. Have fun as this conversion won't be easy but if you get all the parts from the donor car things will go a lot better (and cheaper).

mamoroso

You have to budget for an exhaust. Depending on when u end up living you might need cats as well. For that budget anything between 1.8k to 3k.
Also you will need to improve the 915 transmission and upgrade the clutch. Figure anoither 2k.
And then you must upgrade the brakes. However you look at it it's going to be around 3k.
Suspension upgrade is advisable... U can spend anywhere form 5k (re-do all the suspension using top parts eg Elephant racing) to 1k (new torsion bars ans shocks to match).
Oh did I mention that if u decide to go Big-Reds for the brakes you need 17' wheels?
You can do things 1 at a time... but I would budget for brakes and tranny when doing the coversion.
Good luck!

mamoroso

Also u need to add an additional oil cooler.... figure 1k. And then you need to budget for labor... unless you plan to do everything yourself...

JackOlsen

You'll need a second (or more substantial replacement) cooler. That's about it. You can always upgrade a higher-horpsepower car's suspension, brakes and transaxle, but it isn't required when you're just adding horsepower to a street car.

In some states, you will need a car that's much older than a 911SC, or the swapped car will be difficult to get past emissions.

Bill Verburg

You will be very pleased w/ the end result Go to the Pelican Home link in my sig, there iis a page devoted to the high points of the swap.

the later the chassis the esaier the swap but the more likely emisssions regs will be a problem.

Any chassis '72 - '89 will do but the later SC and Carrersa have a stronger al 915 case, the mg case 915s have some nice steel reinforcement and ought to have their side covers beefed up, a cooler would be nice for the track

You will need a large front oil cooler or 2 large fender coolers, most everthing else like brales and suspensoion is optional, nice but not necessary, it is a tad easier to fit a large front cooler in an SC than in an earlier car.

As I mentioned in the other thread get the engine w/ exhaust and heat(this gives you more options on the installation), the entire haness from engine to the seat, the pigtal harness w/ the diagnostic port and the port itself can also be useful but not mandatory.

Steve's t/p kit is a good buy and well worth it.

The biggest hidden cost is labor and the big front oil cooler(s)

Clipboard

Tag. Nothing against doing this swap, but much of your ability to make use of the finished product will 'depend'. With the US$ down against the Euro, an already built 911 hot rod bought here will be much, MUCH, cheaper and you can run it immediately. The other 'depend' is where you are going to register it. Many American states are broken up into sub-areas that have much stricter regulations than others; in some states, if the base vehicle is over 25 (it can be 20) years old it doesn't matter what you do. I'm sure if you let us know roughly where you intend to register the car, you will get excellent advice. I'm moving mine from DC (highly regulated) to rural _____ state (anything goes).
Good luck
tchuss
john

r911

"Is there any advantage on buying an SC versus a earlier 911..."
The SC has a slightly better suspension. Here is what I would do: get a 1972 911T with a blown engine, a varioram 993 engine, the Timmons exchange kit, and a rolled 1985-86 Carrera. Swap all the hard parts from the latter into the former, except the engine. This means the F &R suspension and brakes and the shift tower. Also swap the seats if they are not power ones. Then add the 993 engine, stir, don't shake and drive drive drive....

mmasse

thanks a lot for all this valuable info.

i will be moving to NY (westchester county). I did some research on the NY DMV, and from what I understand, if the vehicle is more than 25 years old it does not requires to pass emission. I can also register it as a "vintage car", whcih seems to have some additional benefits. I am still not sure if by adding a newer engine (993) I will be required the emission, but I think I won't. anyone can confirm this?

John, i guess you are probably right about the fact that it could be cheaper to buy an already built hot rod in the US. But I have to say that building it is as much fun for me as driving it. As I read in a post from someone doing the same convertion "it is the journey and not only the destination" what matters for me. But thanks for your advice anyway.

I do plan to do much of the work myself. I have already done most of this stuff on my current car (upgrading suspention, brakes, engine and transmission removal, etc), so i feel quite confident that i acould do the job. I will need to go to the pros for some part, e.g. ECU remapping which I understan I will need . Do I need it????

thanks again to everyone,

Clipboard

You are correct. Over 25 years no emissions and any engine is OK. You can put an aluminium 502 Chevy in it if you want. I'm going to be in rural western New York state near Watkins Glen and my 83 only needs a 'visual' inspection at my cousin's garage, so for the initial registration it will look like it has a cat. I think I'll be the first 911 in the county - ever. Westy on the other hand, has a long history of Porsches so you should be able to get some help off Rennlist as far as local shops. I'm too old for the modern systems, but if you have the ecm that came with the engine, I expect you would only need some tweeking regarding the 915 transmission's lack of sensors. There are much better sources available for 1s and 0s tips than me - I reckon that's been made obvious. Besides I've got my eye on a local farmer's 1933 Ford Model BB flathead 1-ton dually as my next project (for my tow vehicle). Have fun.
john

Bill Verburg

Here are the NYS and Westchester inspection regs, right from the source
NYS
9 county region around NYC, includes Westchester

Yes, you will want an ecu remap Rick Deman (in Nyack across the river from Westchester) has a dyno and can help w/ that. He has several very nice 3.6 t/ps running around.