Cross Post - What's Wrong With This Deal?
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Pasadena, CA
Cross Post - What's Wrong With This Deal?
I found what appears to be a great car on Saturday, what's wrong with it?
'90 964 Sunroof Coupe with 120,000 miles, asking price is $22,900
Flawless original Guards Red over Tan leather, 9+ of 10 - not a mark on it, beautiful and original paint and interior. Expensive stereo with amplifier installed properly in trunk. Brey Krause strut tower brace, tires are excellent nothing AT ALL I can see wrong with this car. Body seams are even and straight, NO evidnce of any body work or paint ever. Minor oil leakage below.... enough so I can tell it hasn't just been steam cleaned to show.
Now here's my problem: It was at one of these little independant,
non-performance-car-selling used car lots! I drove by and admired it and thought it belonged to the owner of the lot. Owner's manual has stamps for dealer service through 33,000 miles.
Why would a car like this end up at one of those kinds of lots? It sure wasn't a trade in. Cars at these lots come from auctions, specialty lots usually snap up Porsches, especially good ones, before these little non-performance lots. I LOVE the look of this car and if I pursue it I'd have a PPI done of course but even then....it is making me uneasy. Opinions? Price?
'90 964 Sunroof Coupe with 120,000 miles, asking price is $22,900
Flawless original Guards Red over Tan leather, 9+ of 10 - not a mark on it, beautiful and original paint and interior. Expensive stereo with amplifier installed properly in trunk. Brey Krause strut tower brace, tires are excellent nothing AT ALL I can see wrong with this car. Body seams are even and straight, NO evidnce of any body work or paint ever. Minor oil leakage below.... enough so I can tell it hasn't just been steam cleaned to show.
Now here's my problem: It was at one of these little independant,
non-performance-car-selling used car lots! I drove by and admired it and thought it belonged to the owner of the lot. Owner's manual has stamps for dealer service through 33,000 miles.
Why would a car like this end up at one of those kinds of lots? It sure wasn't a trade in. Cars at these lots come from auctions, specialty lots usually snap up Porsches, especially good ones, before these little non-performance lots. I LOVE the look of this car and if I pursue it I'd have a PPI done of course but even then....it is making me uneasy. Opinions? Price?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
It probably has about $8K of oil leaks! Have the car taken to a Porsche shop, remove the under-engine panels and check it out. FYI: Most car lots will not permit a PPI, if that's the case walk away. Remember, there is a reason that car's at a lot, and not tucked away under its cover in its owner's garage!
Pete
Pete
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Pasadena, CA
Peter, I honored. I just finished reading your book, it was great. I am also a little embarassed that I don't remember reading about a "cylinder to cylinder" head leak problem. I know the '89, '90 (and 91's?) had no "head gasket" per se and that this is the source of major leakage. I've also been told it is a multi-thousand dollar tear down to fix a low cost problem. Then of course with a car with 120,000 miles there would always be the "while-I'm-in-there" cost factor. I would of course insist on a PPI and if that were a "no go" then of course "no deal".
Jeremy - I really admire your Cab and I didn't know you had a 964. Yes, I am in love with Guards Red 964 Coupes. I know others don't especially like the 964's styling, but I love them. I am telling myself "if it seems too good to be true, then it is!" But I am struggling to think with my brain instead of my heart. Curious, did you have your C2 leaks fixed or what? If you don't mind, what was the cost?
Jeremy - I really admire your Cab and I didn't know you had a 964. Yes, I am in love with Guards Red 964 Coupes. I know others don't especially like the 964's styling, but I love them. I am telling myself "if it seems too good to be true, then it is!" But I am struggling to think with my brain instead of my heart. Curious, did you have your C2 leaks fixed or what? If you don't mind, what was the cost?
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Pasadena, CA
Okay, here's the deal. I just got off the phone with the used car lot manager. They ran a carfax on the car and it comes back a two owner car, originally purchased in Huntington Beach, CA. The car fax is available to me. For those not familiar with Southern California, Huntington is an expensive place to live (though not THE most expensive local beach town) and only about 40 miles from where the car is now. In other words, it all fits.
They have a thick file of receipts, they read off many to me over the phone and there is a consistent history through the years. There is even a compression test in November 03 at 107,000 miles showing 205-195-190-195-195-195 and one in late '97 showing 210-200-205-215-215-215. There was an assortment of minor/middling fixes. Replaced clutch hose and system bleed one time, another time the chain cover gaskets were replaced. AC recharge, CV boots replaced at one point. A window regulator adjustment another time. This manager commented that "Oh my, these cars are very expenisve to own aren't they?" Of course I said "Yes, which is exactly why I am asking so many questions about it".
They have no problem with me taking the car for a PPI as long as a salesman goes along - totally appropriate - and they gave me the VIN which is WPOAB2968LS451221 - someone tell me that "LS" in there stands for "Limited Slip" - too much to hope for? They even read off the name of the shop that most of the receipts are from. I will call them shortly. Opinions? Advice? All appreciated. Again, I will re-pot this on the 964 board too. Thanks Guys, Dan
They have a thick file of receipts, they read off many to me over the phone and there is a consistent history through the years. There is even a compression test in November 03 at 107,000 miles showing 205-195-190-195-195-195 and one in late '97 showing 210-200-205-215-215-215. There was an assortment of minor/middling fixes. Replaced clutch hose and system bleed one time, another time the chain cover gaskets were replaced. AC recharge, CV boots replaced at one point. A window regulator adjustment another time. This manager commented that "Oh my, these cars are very expenisve to own aren't they?" Of course I said "Yes, which is exactly why I am asking so many questions about it".
They have no problem with me taking the car for a PPI as long as a salesman goes along - totally appropriate - and they gave me the VIN which is WPOAB2968LS451221 - someone tell me that "LS" in there stands for "Limited Slip" - too much to hope for? They even read off the name of the shop that most of the receipts are from. I will call them shortly. Opinions? Advice? All appreciated. Again, I will re-pot this on the 964 board too. Thanks Guys, Dan
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,408
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From: St Petersburg, FL
Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena
Jeremy - I really admire your Cab and I didn't know you had a 964. Yes, I am in love with Guards Red 964 Coupes. I know others don't especially like the 964's styling, but I love them. I am telling myself "if it seems too good to be true, then it is!" But I am struggling to think with my brain instead of my heart. Curious, did you have your C2 leaks fixed or what? If you don't mind, what was the cost?
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
Sorry Dan, "LS" means:
"L" = 1990 model
"S" = Built in Stuttgart
This does not sound like a typical car lot transaction - it's very rare for a lot to have a service record file...
Pete
"L" = 1990 model
"S" = Built in Stuttgart
This does not sound like a typical car lot transaction - it's very rare for a lot to have a service record file...
Pete
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Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Pasadena, CA
Thanks Pete,
What (if you feel comfortable saying) do you know about Andial in Santa Ana, CA. This was where most the service was done on the car. Good news or bad?
I am calling them today to see if they will tell me anything. What terminology do I ask for in checking to see if they know if either the head to head leakage issue and/or the distributor fix job was done? Not to be too dense, but the head to head leakage issue is an oil leak issue, right? Not a compression leak, or is my understanding wrong?
What (if you feel comfortable saying) do you know about Andial in Santa Ana, CA. This was where most the service was done on the car. Good news or bad?
I am calling them today to see if they will tell me anything. What terminology do I ask for in checking to see if they know if either the head to head leakage issue and/or the distributor fix job was done? Not to be too dense, but the head to head leakage issue is an oil leak issue, right? Not a compression leak, or is my understanding wrong?
Rennlist Member
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
Dan: Of course, Andial's race shop's rep preceeds itself, and I haven't heard anything negative about their street shop. I'm sure they're competent and can answer your questions. The cylinder to head leak is an oil leak issue, but I guess you could say if oil is getting out so is a small amount of compression. With the twin-plug distributor just ask if they've replaced the drive belt and installed a vent kit. Also, you should ask them what notes were made on the last repair invoice (bad shocks?, bad tires?, specific info about oil leaks? A/C or defroster problem? Leakdown test problem? etc...).
Pete
Pete
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Three Wheelin'
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From: Pasadena, CA
Thanks Pete,
I think what I am hearing overall is that what is exceptional about this deal is this much information, receipts and cooperation is not usually available from a little used car lot. What is not exceptional (am I hearing this right?) is the price. I thought $22,900 might be a (too?) low price.
I am hearing some say it's too high and some say it's about right, but no one is saying it's a deal or exceptionally low. If that is true (your expert advice much appreciated on this Pete) the one thing I am somewhat concerned about is the 120,000 miles. The same car with perhaps 60,000 miles would be much more to my liking and I think they do exist.
I was thinking if it checks out to offer say $19,500 and go to 20 or 20.5. They (I'm sure) want $22K and the $900 is for negotiation. My plan would include trying to buy a used car warranty.
I think what I am hearing overall is that what is exceptional about this deal is this much information, receipts and cooperation is not usually available from a little used car lot. What is not exceptional (am I hearing this right?) is the price. I thought $22,900 might be a (too?) low price.
I am hearing some say it's too high and some say it's about right, but no one is saying it's a deal or exceptionally low. If that is true (your expert advice much appreciated on this Pete) the one thing I am somewhat concerned about is the 120,000 miles. The same car with perhaps 60,000 miles would be much more to my liking and I think they do exist.
I was thinking if it checks out to offer say $19,500 and go to 20 or 20.5. They (I'm sure) want $22K and the $900 is for negotiation. My plan would include trying to buy a used car warranty.
Legacy Flounder
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From: Cumberland, RI
Dan, FYI I was about to buy a triple black 90 964 Cab before getting my 84 Cab. $18,500 was the handshake deal (orig. asking $20k), IF everything checked out on the PPI. The dealer apparently figured they had more to make on the car, as they told me they were sending it to auction. 75k on the car too, they also had a bunch of receipts.
eBay, a black over linen 91 w/ 80k was going for a $20k reserve when I bought the '84 too.
Just FYI - I'm sure the one you're eyeing is in better shape. Best of luck!
eBay, a black over linen 91 w/ 80k was going for a $20k reserve when I bought the '84 too.
Just FYI - I'm sure the one you're eyeing is in better shape. Best of luck!
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Pasadena, CA
Fred,
Thanks for the info. This is exactly the kind of thing I need to know. It tells me I am letting myself get too caught up in the excitement and not standing back rationally. Incidentally, I just called Andial and they won't tell me a thing, they say the current owner has to call. Well, the current owner is the car lot and even if I give them the questions to ask, will they tell me the full truth if the answers aren't all that good? I was charged up this morning, nowI am slowing down a little and thinking. A triple black Cab for $18,500 sounds awfully good, not to mention awfully pretty.
Curious, any regrets at getting the Carerra instead of the 964 in terms of its character or performance?
Thanks for the info. This is exactly the kind of thing I need to know. It tells me I am letting myself get too caught up in the excitement and not standing back rationally. Incidentally, I just called Andial and they won't tell me a thing, they say the current owner has to call. Well, the current owner is the car lot and even if I give them the questions to ask, will they tell me the full truth if the answers aren't all that good? I was charged up this morning, nowI am slowing down a little and thinking. A triple black Cab for $18,500 sounds awfully good, not to mention awfully pretty.
Curious, any regrets at getting the Carerra instead of the 964 in terms of its character or performance?
Rennlist Member
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
Dan: This is really a tough area to negotiate in. So many things might be right, or wrong, I think you should base an offer on a PPI. It's a good thing that the invoices track consistently with mileage gaps, at least the car didn't spend 4 years in a body shop! I do not think that you should pay asking price, how low you go depends on what your PPI guy tells you. Sorry that I can't offer more help regarding value...
Pete
Pete
Drifting
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From: St Petersburg, FL