Bought a '72 911S Euro. How'd I do?
10-10-2004, 05:36 PM
#16
I've driven both and the MFI didn't seem more responsive. But perhaps it was not tuned right - who knows. Most of those posts re MFI more responsive don't state how they tested - or if they tested at all.
BUT - if you have MFI it is well worth keeping and fixing up, just for the collectible value alone.
BUT - if you have MFI it is well worth keeping and fixing up, just for the collectible value alone.
10-10-2004, 05:54 PM
#17
Race Car
Yeah, it's worth mentioning: the blessing and curse of owning an early S is that the value is directly linked to the car's originality. Dumping MFI is going to hurt the car's value, as is any other non-stock mod, with the exception of period-correct enhancements to the motor. Period-correct details like sports seats will also add to the value, but they cost a fortune.
10-10-2004, 10:28 PM
#18
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Hi Jason,
You will probably need to have the injection pump rebuilt unless it was stored properly sealed with oil. You should bench test the rack to see if it will move freely. Another thing to check are the throttle bodies. Those are probably in need of a rebuild if there is significant play in the moving parts. Here is the guy you want to rebuild the carbs and/or TB.
Eurometrix
I agree with the items on the car you want to fix first. Those things make sense. You will want to replace the door pockets instead of putting on 'RS lightweight' door panels. The problem is the cost to replace the front and rear door pockets is quite high if you buying new ones so look for nice used ones on eBay. The dash can be redone by this company. The dash can't be removed unless the windshield is out so when that is out send the dash off to be redone.
Just Dashes
I think it will run between $600-700. Are we having fun yet?
You will probably need to have the injection pump rebuilt unless it was stored properly sealed with oil. You should bench test the rack to see if it will move freely. Another thing to check are the throttle bodies. Those are probably in need of a rebuild if there is significant play in the moving parts. Here is the guy you want to rebuild the carbs and/or TB.
Eurometrix
I agree with the items on the car you want to fix first. Those things make sense. You will want to replace the door pockets instead of putting on 'RS lightweight' door panels. The problem is the cost to replace the front and rear door pockets is quite high if you buying new ones so look for nice used ones on eBay. The dash can be redone by this company. The dash can't be removed unless the windshield is out so when that is out send the dash off to be redone.
Just Dashes
I think it will run between $600-700. Are we having fun yet?
10-10-2004, 11:02 PM
#19
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Oh yeah, a BLAST!!! After I get my seat belts in I'm ready to get the brake work done and then on the body work.
I'll think I'll go with the MFI but drive it with the carbs for the time being so I can concentrate on doing a proper job on the exterior resto.
After some thought, my plans are to build the car as a performance-minded lawyer, doctor, businessman, etc. would have done circa 1973-74. Very classy, very quick, very fun to drive, but with a couple of personalized touches, such as an aftermarket 8 track deck, aftermarket sport seats, or aftermarket wheels that would be correct for the era. Possibly a set of driving lights. I'm not going to put the RS door panels on, the only things that won't be original-spec are those that could easily be bolted / unbolted and that a new owner would feel comfortable performing on his newer high end car.
I want it to be quick and fun to drive, but classy enough that I could drive it to a black-tie affair with my wife and feel as if we've arrived in style. So it won't have much of a race look like R-gruppe, ST, etc. But more of a sport-lux look, since it's got the power windows and sunroof which wouldn't be spec'd on a racer / sport purpose, and the black which I think is gorgeous and classy when clean. I love black cars, my Audi is also black.
Brian,
Thanks for the leads, I had heard of Eurometrix, but talked to Pacific Fuel Injection a couple of times in the past. I've heard that either one does a great job.
I really needed the lead for the dash work, I haven't called anyone yet but saw someone in Hemmings but it looked like they did mostly domestic vehicles. Thanks!
I'll think I'll go with the MFI but drive it with the carbs for the time being so I can concentrate on doing a proper job on the exterior resto.
After some thought, my plans are to build the car as a performance-minded lawyer, doctor, businessman, etc. would have done circa 1973-74. Very classy, very quick, very fun to drive, but with a couple of personalized touches, such as an aftermarket 8 track deck, aftermarket sport seats, or aftermarket wheels that would be correct for the era. Possibly a set of driving lights. I'm not going to put the RS door panels on, the only things that won't be original-spec are those that could easily be bolted / unbolted and that a new owner would feel comfortable performing on his newer high end car.
I want it to be quick and fun to drive, but classy enough that I could drive it to a black-tie affair with my wife and feel as if we've arrived in style. So it won't have much of a race look like R-gruppe, ST, etc. But more of a sport-lux look, since it's got the power windows and sunroof which wouldn't be spec'd on a racer / sport purpose, and the black which I think is gorgeous and classy when clean. I love black cars, my Audi is also black.
Brian,
Thanks for the leads, I had heard of Eurometrix, but talked to Pacific Fuel Injection a couple of times in the past. I've heard that either one does a great job.
I really needed the lead for the dash work, I haven't called anyone yet but saw someone in Hemmings but it looked like they did mostly domestic vehicles. Thanks!
10-11-2004, 12:22 AM
#20
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Lovely car, I'll double your money if you want to sell it straight away!
The license plates are not Italian they are English and show that the car was imported/registered in the UK in either late 76 or 77.
The "R" denotes the year of registration, it was much later that they gave you a correct year related letter according to the age of the car as opposed to the date of first registrtion in the UK. A 72 car should have either a J or K suffix.
Good Luck and my offer is serious!
Best Regards
Ian
The license plates are not Italian they are English and show that the car was imported/registered in the UK in either late 76 or 77.
The "R" denotes the year of registration, it was much later that they gave you a correct year related letter according to the age of the car as opposed to the date of first registrtion in the UK. A 72 car should have either a J or K suffix.
Good Luck and my offer is serious!
Best Regards
Ian
10-11-2004, 12:36 AM
#21
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Excellent! Thanks for the info on the tags! I'll have to research those now...the seller told me that they were on the car when he purchased in Italy. Doesn't quite add up unless the previous owner relocated from GB to Italy and gave the seller his OLD plates and kept his Italian plates.
I don't think I'm willing to sell it, but thanks for the offer and the information! I love discovering tidbits of the car's history like that! I wonder if I could find out who the car was registered to? I wonder if the DMV in England is open to doing a search like that? I've never even done anything like that in the states! I wouldn't know where to begin...
It also means that the car has probably had more than two owners. It doesn't surprise me that much, but the seller told me that the guy he bought it from was an Italian police officer and he had to have a military lawyer translate during the transaction, so this guy would not have had it registered in England. The seller told me that this Italian previous owner told him that he was the original owner.
One more thing, does the yellow plate go in the front or back?
I don't think I'm willing to sell it, but thanks for the offer and the information! I love discovering tidbits of the car's history like that! I wonder if I could find out who the car was registered to? I wonder if the DMV in England is open to doing a search like that? I've never even done anything like that in the states! I wouldn't know where to begin...
It also means that the car has probably had more than two owners. It doesn't surprise me that much, but the seller told me that the guy he bought it from was an Italian police officer and he had to have a military lawyer translate during the transaction, so this guy would not have had it registered in England. The seller told me that this Italian previous owner told him that he was the original owner.
One more thing, does the yellow plate go in the front or back?
10-11-2004, 01:09 AM
#22
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White plate at the front , yellow plate at the rear.
Buying a car in Italy is a MAJOR headache, you have to pay an Italian Attorney about $400 to witness and stamp the title, then you pay to have the papers changed at a licensing office and if alls well you should be OK.
I did it in 2001 and all seemed fine, deciding to drive the car all the way back to the UK from Rome I was stopped by the Italian Carabiniere, in my opinion,a bunch of armed police who like to take bribes. They stopped me within 100ft of the border with France, they told me that they were going to take the car away and crush it because the owner had failed to have the stamp put on the right page. Suggesting a Back hander " for a poor policeman mister" I paid up and later phoned the owner telling him of the missed stamp"Oh just give them some money that's all they want, no problem" he said
Great!
Buying a car in Italy is a MAJOR headache, you have to pay an Italian Attorney about $400 to witness and stamp the title, then you pay to have the papers changed at a licensing office and if alls well you should be OK.
I did it in 2001 and all seemed fine, deciding to drive the car all the way back to the UK from Rome I was stopped by the Italian Carabiniere, in my opinion,a bunch of armed police who like to take bribes. They stopped me within 100ft of the border with France, they told me that they were going to take the car away and crush it because the owner had failed to have the stamp put on the right page. Suggesting a Back hander " for a poor policeman mister" I paid up and later phoned the owner telling him of the missed stamp"Oh just give them some money that's all they want, no problem" he said
Great!
Last edited by achtung Englander; 10-16-2004 at 07:07 PM.
10-11-2004, 01:16 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by L8 Apex
Excellent! Thanks for the info on the tags! I'll have to research those now...the seller told me that they were on the car when he purchased in Italy. Doesn't quite add up unless the previous owner relocated from GB to Italy and gave the seller his OLD plates and kept his Italian plates.
10-11-2004, 01:36 AM
#25
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Since the guy I bought it from works for the Department of Defense we could probably work the car into a storyline for a Tom Clancy novel! Who knows what could have been smuggled into New Jersey from Italy in the "smuggler's box" of an early 911!
Come to think of it, the guy I bought it from said he also imported a '70 Targa that he sent to his brother in California just to sell, but it probably went through the same importer in N.J. His story was that 911's were a dime a dozen in Italy when he was there and they could be bought CHEAP and sent to the U.S. to make a buck. He just decided to keep this one for, oh, about 20 years.
Come to think of it, the guy I bought it from said he also imported a '70 Targa that he sent to his brother in California just to sell, but it probably went through the same importer in N.J. His story was that 911's were a dime a dozen in Italy when he was there and they could be bought CHEAP and sent to the U.S. to make a buck. He just decided to keep this one for, oh, about 20 years.
10-11-2004, 10:50 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by fixnprsh
Maybe It was stolen in GB and driven or transported down to Italy where things like a stolen old Porsce go unoticed and unchecked
Will you wake up one day and realize that the world is changing and maybe overtaking you guys?
I don't want to go off-topic too much but this type of mental attitude is the precise reason why the US have become so umpopular everywhere in the world. It's called ARROGANCE.
Finally I'd like to inform you that UK cars have the driving wheel on the right side of the car as they drive on the left side of the road, so that would have certainly caused some suspicion anywhere, even in the US...
I also find it very very difficult to believe what another member said about him bribing a police officer (which makes him incidentally just as guilty as the bribed person). If he stands up to his words I am prepared to report this case to the Italian "Autorità Giudiziaria". This is serious guys. We must not make this type of posts unless you're very sure about what you're saying and prepared to stand behind that. Just imagine the opposite, like someone here saying that he bribed an officer in San Francisco...but this is of course just an example
I'm signing this post with my real name.
Giorgio Alberti
10-11-2004, 11:44 AM
#27
Giorgio... get a freakin' life.... it is not established that this car was or was not stolen... this is pure speculation... in any evert it was done by previous owners... not anybodey here...secondly, the fact that thieItalian police are corrupt and extort money from people does not seem to be a reason to hate America... no disrespect to Italy... what is, just is.
Back to reality here..., Jason, looks like you did well. Some comments.
New OEM dash will cost about $800... not cheap, but cheap compared wiht $600 repair.
Door pouches are at least $400 per... may be able to get some good used ones somewhere, but they are subject to water damage, so this might be a challenge. You can get RS panel for a few hundred.... these will clean up the inside while you do more priority work.... you can always do the factory panels
Definately go with the MFI sometime... but this can easily be deferred... you can drive it on the carbs until you get about $1,500+ to redo it right. Pump will probably be $800-1000, but plan on other parts and $$$ for setup... you really need an expert to do this right, and it takes time.
IF the car pulls strong above 3,000 it is probably at least decent... S is not a pig below 3,000, but compared with the top end it feels slow.... but get a good motor guy to go ovet is carefully... you don;t want a small problem to turn into a big one... top notch rebuild $7-9K easily... you don't want that.
Glass, headliner, etc not that big a deal once the body is stripped.... for a few $K you can probably have it really nice.
Your seats look ok. A set of period factory sport Recaros will run at least $2,500 in mediocre condition.... there is a guy on the R-Gruppe site that sells vintage repro seats... don;t know his name offhand, but stuff looks neat... but seats are easliy replaced at any time....
I would definately get a good body shop to throroughly go over the car for rust ASAP. Yank that bad front fender off... this is virtually a bolt-on.... there is sure to be structural rust underneath that...better to know. Also pull off the rocker trim... a quick job, and a cozy place for rust to develop. Rust in the front of the trunk isn;t that big a deal, but rust in the rockers, floors etc can be nasty... sometimes you don;t know until somebody starts ripping it apart.
But rust repair is hours times shop time.... can really run up quick
If the car turns out to be too rusty, you can get out for close to your pruchase.... but every dime you put into it kiss good bye. so only do safety stuff for now.... fluids, brakes. tires etc. until you know its a keeper.
Some other cautions. The aluminum S calipers are very, very, very rare and expensive.... like almost what you paid for your car.... they are also somewhat limited in rebuild capability so be very careful preserving them.... they are also critial to the originality, so you need them...
Also the turn signal cases are cheap pot metal, easy to break and hard to find... ditto caution.
Look for the 911 book by Dr Brett Johnson... a very good year by year reference for the small bumper cars... Autobooks probably has it....
IF the car is only moderate rust, and you can get by a few years without a motor or gearbox rebuild and your calipers are in good shape, you will have a nice project car that you will probably not get upside down in..
JCP
Back to reality here..., Jason, looks like you did well. Some comments.
New OEM dash will cost about $800... not cheap, but cheap compared wiht $600 repair.
Door pouches are at least $400 per... may be able to get some good used ones somewhere, but they are subject to water damage, so this might be a challenge. You can get RS panel for a few hundred.... these will clean up the inside while you do more priority work.... you can always do the factory panels
Definately go with the MFI sometime... but this can easily be deferred... you can drive it on the carbs until you get about $1,500+ to redo it right. Pump will probably be $800-1000, but plan on other parts and $$$ for setup... you really need an expert to do this right, and it takes time.
IF the car pulls strong above 3,000 it is probably at least decent... S is not a pig below 3,000, but compared with the top end it feels slow.... but get a good motor guy to go ovet is carefully... you don;t want a small problem to turn into a big one... top notch rebuild $7-9K easily... you don't want that.
Glass, headliner, etc not that big a deal once the body is stripped.... for a few $K you can probably have it really nice.
Your seats look ok. A set of period factory sport Recaros will run at least $2,500 in mediocre condition.... there is a guy on the R-Gruppe site that sells vintage repro seats... don;t know his name offhand, but stuff looks neat... but seats are easliy replaced at any time....
I would definately get a good body shop to throroughly go over the car for rust ASAP. Yank that bad front fender off... this is virtually a bolt-on.... there is sure to be structural rust underneath that...better to know. Also pull off the rocker trim... a quick job, and a cozy place for rust to develop. Rust in the front of the trunk isn;t that big a deal, but rust in the rockers, floors etc can be nasty... sometimes you don;t know until somebody starts ripping it apart.
But rust repair is hours times shop time.... can really run up quick
If the car turns out to be too rusty, you can get out for close to your pruchase.... but every dime you put into it kiss good bye. so only do safety stuff for now.... fluids, brakes. tires etc. until you know its a keeper.
Some other cautions. The aluminum S calipers are very, very, very rare and expensive.... like almost what you paid for your car.... they are also somewhat limited in rebuild capability so be very careful preserving them.... they are also critial to the originality, so you need them...
Also the turn signal cases are cheap pot metal, easy to break and hard to find... ditto caution.
Look for the 911 book by Dr Brett Johnson... a very good year by year reference for the small bumper cars... Autobooks probably has it....
IF the car is only moderate rust, and you can get by a few years without a motor or gearbox rebuild and your calipers are in good shape, you will have a nice project car that you will probably not get upside down in..
JCP
10-11-2004, 11:53 AM
#28
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Well, this is just hearsay, but the seller of this car also told me that when he was in Italy, which was in the early '80's, that if your car broke down on the side of the road, you did NOT leave your car unattended. Otherwise it would be a parted tub when you returned.
I was surprised by this because, although I've never been to Italy, (have been to GB & Ireland though!) I've always pictured the stereotypical "Tuscan" landscape, not one littered with jacked cars! The same thing probably happens in L.A. or East St. Louis (a little closer to me), but the seller's description of Italy in the early '80's was certainly of a place where something like this could occur.
My point is, that the general impression of Italy in the U.S. is not one of a rogue state where crimes go unoticed and unchecked but in this particular scenario there could be some truth to that idea.
Some would argue that the previous owner did "steal" it since he only paid $4,000 U.S. for it! Not sure how $4,000 1983 dollars equate in 2004 dollars, especially since the dollar is weaker nowadays, but I would think that would be a heck of a deal.
I was surprised by this because, although I've never been to Italy, (have been to GB & Ireland though!) I've always pictured the stereotypical "Tuscan" landscape, not one littered with jacked cars! The same thing probably happens in L.A. or East St. Louis (a little closer to me), but the seller's description of Italy in the early '80's was certainly of a place where something like this could occur.
My point is, that the general impression of Italy in the U.S. is not one of a rogue state where crimes go unoticed and unchecked but in this particular scenario there could be some truth to that idea.
Some would argue that the previous owner did "steal" it since he only paid $4,000 U.S. for it! Not sure how $4,000 1983 dollars equate in 2004 dollars, especially since the dollar is weaker nowadays, but I would think that would be a heck of a deal.
10-11-2004, 12:23 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by JCP911S
, the fact that thieItalian police are corrupt and extort money from people does not seem to be a reason to hate America... no disrespect to Italy... what is, just is.
JCP
JCP
The fact that you are playing with words and adding aggressive sentences like "get a freaking life" simply shows that you are feeling unsecure and are uncapable of dealing with problems in a rational way.
Sorry, no disrispect to you, but...what is, just is.
As for LBApex, you talk about the perception of Italy in the US and it really comes up as something very close to Kabul afetr the war. THIS is the problem with you guys. You live in an imaginary world where the only perfect place is the US. This is why you are losing the world sympathy, the economic leadership and what are you left with? only military leadership. Your world is coming to an end and you just don't realize it.
I lived many years in Cleveland and was a senior manager in a major American corporation, so I think I know the US much better than you know Italy.
And please show some respect and don't answer with "get a life" type of sentences and maybe add your real names...how's that?
In any case, I certainly don't want to stay in a place where I am not welcome and people offend my Country. So I am "resigning" from this site and will not come back again here.
There is no way we can anymore live, think, work, dream together with you guys.
Today the US have lost one more friend.
Giorgio Alberti
10-11-2004, 12:50 PM
#30
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See ya. No love lost. I don't want to chat with someone who offends MY country by stereotyping it as arrogant.
Anyway, isn't this site about Porsches? If you want to talk about Porsches I think you're welcome here anytime. That has been my experience anyway.
Anyway, isn't this site about Porsches? If you want to talk about Porsches I think you're welcome here anytime. That has been my experience anyway.