Hey guys. I'm looking at a '70 911E that has lots of mods that I'm somewhat concerned about. I'd like to get some opinions on these mods so I'll know if they're safe or not.

1) The 2.2L cylinders / pistons were replaced to a reported 2.8L displacement using the stock 2.2L case. Is this safe? Will this create the same problems that the factory 2.7L engines had?

2) It was upgraded to "S" cams, but retains the stock MFI system (recently rebuilt). Are there reliability problems with this mod? My experience has been that MFI to valve timing is critical for the car to run well.

3) It has an "updated" Carrera front suspension. I've never heard of this one before. The service record says "update front suspension to Carrera aluminum crossmember and Carrera lower control arms, ball joints, and hardware."

4) The car seems to have had chronic problems with the transmission synchros. 2nd gear is out right now. The owner is guessing that the car is making over 200hp, will the 901 handle this ok?

The car does have the carrera chain tensioner updates and all of the receipts for the engine and suspension work.


Here are some pics:

 

The 901 is capable of handling a lot more than 200 hp but not with the stock gears.

How does the car drive?

 

Not sure yet. It's about 3 hours away from me. I was able to talk to the mechanic that has been servicing the car and he said that it drives great and hauls butt. But he said he would recommend rebuilding the 901 tranny instead of putting a 915 in. He said it was just as strong but lighter.

At 102,398 miles, there is a service job to replace 5 synchro rings, 2 operating sleeves, 2nd gear dog teeth, and a transmission gasket set.

At 103,875 miles, the engine and MFI pump was rebuilt at a cost of $15,415.

The car is now at 110,xxx miles, and second gear is out again.

The mechanic said the car was a 7 out of 10 because there is a little rust on it, but not much. And the A/C compressor is not in the car, although there is a receipt for one that the owner sent me but I'm not sure he has it.


Are you familiar with the Carrera front suspension update?

 

what is the asking price? thats the most important detail! im sure it hauls ***, but figure on a full cost to do the tranny right and deduct it from his price, if the tranny lasted 7K miles, it probably wasn't setup correctly, did the same guy build the engine? get a PPI done to check the compression and leakdown as safe insurance.

It looks tops though, a real terror in hiding, It all depends on the price though.

Later carrera control arms were cast aluminum, quite ahead of thier time reducing unsrung weight, sound like this guy has spent a ton of money on this car.

 

Asking price is $12,500, but he has stated that he's very willing to negotiate as he's already bought another vehicle and is aware of the transmission work. We haven't reached that stage of the purchase process yet.

The suspension update was about $7,000. The current owner has receipts dating back to 1995 from his ownership and the PO. I just totalled them and they add up to $41,373!! Ouch. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It could mean that there's not a lot left to maintain in the short term, or it could mean that this car is the devil in disguise. :-)

He also said this color was Aztec Blue, but I checked Peter Morgan's book up at Barnes & Noble and he didn't list that as a color option for '70. Are you familiar with this color? This was repainted in the late '80's so it will probably be due sometime in the next few years. A couple of rust spots are starting to show.

 

The mechanic that I talked to today is not the one that did the previous tranny rebuild. I just went to Motor Meister's website and they have a quote for a 901 rebuild for $795.

I did price a PPI with the current mechanic and he said it would be $240 ($80 per hour x 3 hours), to do the compression test and leakdown would be an additional 2 hours, so that would run $400. STEEP. I've got a compression tester but I don't have a gauge to do a leakdown. I compression tested the '72 that I had and I don't recall it being that hard... seems like a couple of the plugs are at a funky angle or something...

 

#3 is a great thing - it save a tad of wt. and you can run Carrera calipers, or S or some others. I have this. Check with a magnet to see if he did Al banana arms in the rear also.

There is an aftermarket mod to the 901 (or is it a 911 type) trans. Steve Wiener knows all about it, and may post for you. It is an Al piece that replaces the int. part of the trans, I think. If you want a heavier, but stronger trans. you can put a 915 in with some mods. You will lose the great road race shift pattern.

This sounds like it has some great r gruppe mods -- BUT you will want a race or hot rod type mechanic to check and make sure it is all done right. If so, it is an xlnt bargain at the price. If not, find out what needs to be done to get it fixed.

 

Some thoughts.

Many 911E came with hydropneumatic front suspension... replacement for this horror is common/required, so the front suspension upgrade does not set off alarms as long as it was done properly.

A 2.8 conversion is a hell of a motor if done properly. I would guess 200hp is pretty conservative for a "real" 2.8 with MFI and S cams. Speaking of which, the MFI pump should have been re-done for the larger displacement engine/cams (Pacific Fuel Injection is generally held to be good with MFI)

The 901 is pretty marginal over 200hp... especially with a torquey motor. By this I mean if you drive it on the track, expect a rebuild every couple years. If you're just tooling around town with the occassional blast through the gears, it will hold up ok.... just go easy on 1st gear... the gears on the main H are much stronger

I would NOT use MotorMeister... haven't heard much positive about them. $795 for a 901 rebuild sounds as ridiculous as a $999 brain surgery special.... expect to pay $3,000 for a properly done rebuild by a legitimate Porsche specialist replacing all the stuff that should be replaced.... parts for these things are getting real expensive.

BTW $400 for PPI is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP compared with engine work. If the guy is knowlegable, its worth every dime and then some. I would never buy a car like this one without a professional PPI.

If all the bills the guy showed you are legit, then I would expect everything was done to spec... but frequently very poor work is done that is equally expensive... do you know the rep of the shop that did it? If it was a top guy, and the PPI came out positive, I wouldn't hesitate buying a car like this... just inderstand that it probably won't have the same collector value as a dead stock car... but as a hot rod, it could be a blast.

Finally watch out about the rust. If is just surface rust, it may be ok, but few of these older cars have "just" surface rust... Repair can range from painful to suicidal... $4000-8000 or more, so caution is warrented here.

 

Here is what's listed on the work order for the suspension:

Koni front set
Koni rear set
(2) Front A arm w/ bushings
(2) Radius arm w/ bushings
Front torsion bar set
(2) Radius arm cover
Bushing set front stabilizer
SC / Carrera aluminum crossmember

Also, the front of the car has just been upgraded with Brembo calipers and cross drilled rotors. Not sure about the back, so maybe these suspension mods made that possible?

And also the fuel tank has been upgraded to an SC model with the spacesaver spare tire.

The engine rebuild appears to have been done without shortcuts. Case savers were installed, the cylinder sealing surface was resurfaced, the case was line bored, and new timing chains and sprockets were installed. Not sure if the shop knew exactly what they were doing but it sounds like they did.

Anyway, I think I'll go ahead and go take a look at the car. If I don't like it I can always drive home and look for the next one...

 

By the way, I do want to thank you all for your insights and the information you've provided on this.

I'm somewhat torn. I want a nice original car just to use as a nostolgic daily driver, but this "R Gruppe" style car sure has tempted me! I can just imagine it with a set of the deep dish, matte silver anodized Fuchs.

 

L8.... Simple solution... buy both. Frankly, if the rust is not bad, and you can get it for under $10K to cover the gearbox work... hard to turn down.... then you can buy a garage queen.... as long as you don't get into a motor rebuild these cars are money in the bank

 

Well, it looks like you've used that solution a couple of times! Where do you garage all of those things?! :-)

As much as I would like two, my wife would never let me have more cars than I can park in our garage, and it will only hold...........2. :-)

 

i believe the color was also called Panamerica Blue -
as far asa the tranny goes - with a 2.8L it will blow through the syncros pretty fast - the 901 is a good tranny but not very strong with when compaired to a 915 - another option is to use steel syncros which will last longer in this application but might expose another weak point or two in the drivetrain. the suspension swap is a really good one actually - you are jsut transplanting the new alum. parts on to the car - you can then use later brakes etc. as well - it simply bolts up. seems like a nice R gruppe car for the money. And all of that vintage have some rust if they are driven regularly.
my 2 drachma's

 

Its like kids... once you have them its hard to let them go.

 

Hi:

JCP offered some VERY good, sound, advice and I'd listen very carefully to that.

I'd like to add a few things if I might.

1) Modified cars are only as good as the person who did the work. Even using the best parts, if the installation was not done correctly, these things can be a problem. As mentioned above, $ 400 for a PPI that can save thousands, is money well spent. You do NOT want any surprises, mechanical or otherwise.

2) A 2.8 makes big torque and a 901 is fragile unless handled carefully with that kind of torque.

3) The 901 can be strengthened with the addition of a 7075 T-6 billet intermediate plate that stiffens the case and helps hold the main & pinion shafts in alignment. (contact me directly for one, if you get the car). There is no question that the 901 is NOT as strong as a 915 and a good 2.8 really strains it. Gently, does it,....

4) Rust is the single biggest and potentially the most expensive issue to deal with. Find an early car expert and have the car VERY thoroughly checked out!

If its a good one and everything checks out, it would be a lot of fun to drive,............


Hi Rob: All 901-915-930 tranny's have steel syncros, sliders, etc. Only G-50's came with brass ones,...