2002M3Drew

I didn't see any responses to your question about fuel grades. I thnk that pretty much all 911's run on premium fuel because of the compression ratios. The 993 motor, of course, has more modern fuel ignition and therefore can probably run on lower fuel grades, but it won't make full HP and you could have drivability issues. And this is assuming that the motor has a stock chip in it...with a performance chip, it's strictly premium.

While we're on the subject of fluids...remember that 911s take around 11 quarts of oil, and oil is changed every 3K miles.

Perhaps more importantly, combined with the questions about maintenance costs yearly, etc., you need to be aware...REALLY aware...that these are expensive cars to own. For example, I almost bought a pristine '82 SC with under 100k miles, drove great and all...PPI showed a broken head stud, and worn synchros in first and second. Well, for this car, that involves pulling out the motor and all....conservatively this job would cost $6,000-7,000, possibly a bit more or less. Neverthless, it shoots the $2,500 a year notion right out of the sky. I really think that these cars, particularly the older ones, are much more enjoyable if you are not worrying about the money.

That 993 motor may be great, but after you drive a few 2.7s, 3.0s, or high mileage 3.2s, they are great, too. Perhaps you should look to find the best $10,000 911SC you can get your hands on and leave the extra dough for repairs, upgrades, etc. A guy from the boards bought a 911 from my mechanic for $10K, and it was in really surprising condition! I've looked at countless others, many with 120-130K miles, that are in the 12K range.

I think, as someone else said earlier, a high power hybrid, one that isn't complete in that it still has an old 915 tranny w/o lsd, is going to be expensive. This is a car for the guy that wants the novelty, and doesn't care if it doesn't start aand needs to be trailered to the shop every once in a while. Things go on these cars anyway, and the frequency will certainly be up in a car like this '77. Not to mention, you might need custom fabrication to replace some broken stuff...not as easy to call Pelican and get an order placed.

I also agree that $19K is high. Customs are always more to make than to buy used. I'd keep looking! It's fun anyway!

notbob

Ok, got email back from the guy after some fun negotiations, his "terms":
Your killing me here - I will accept $15.5 K under the following conditions:
1. Take cars as is
2. No PPI
3. Cash deal or certified check next week.

-----
The "no ppi" bit bugs me, but he had no problem with one at full price, so not sure how to work that to get the monies exchanged and get a PPI in the process of it.

$15.5k is much more on my target for that car, how you guys feel about it? I think it's worth it at 15.5k if I can get a PPI.

RANDY P

"no PPI"?

What about $200 cost-to- cure allowed? PPI will always uncover something, even if it's nitpicky. Ask him point blank "why not?" Maybe a PPI would uncover something $3k to fix? Failing top end perhaps? Call BS, and weird.

$15.5K with no pending mechnical issues is a steal, but then again assuming it's that clean $19K would be OK IMHO. But then again, I'm in the camp that likes mechnically modded 911's.

Either that, or conditions #1 and #3 are just throwaways to get you to stop haggling the price. Those should be givens if it's sold. A sales technique. Maybe nothing is wrong with it at all?

Hell, the seller might even be reading this as we speak? Hence the no PPI thing!

rjp

3.6SC

It would be hard to duplicate for this cost, even if you did it your self. I have a 82 SC with a 964 3.6 that cost me 18,000 to build. I did not pay for any labor (a friend of mine owns a Porsche shop), and it still cost this much.

11,000 for a very nice 82 911 with a 85 3.2
500 for the 3.6 ($6000 but I sold the 3.2 for $5500)
1500 transmission conversion (flywheel, clutch, etc)
800 oil cooler upgrades
800 Exhaust Parts
150 Throttle cable conversions
300 wiring
200 Misc. Metals
500 transmission parts
1000 Other conversion parts

Most parts I got through my friend at cost (except those bought by instant-g) and I paid for no labor. The labor for this conversion would have been around 3000.00 dollars.

Now I need to upgrade my clutch

There was more fabrication and other problems with this install than I could have imagined.

MuffinMan

As previously stated, the condition and mods of each car make it unique. You cannot say "all 3.6 converted cars sell for $X." Nevertheless, I see most sorted 3.6 converted cars listed in the $20k's (the whole range from low to high) to mid $30k's. Most are probably mid-20s.

This new vs old question has valid arguements on both sides, but in the end it comes down to what you want. The 993 3.6 is a good engine when properly cared for, and should not give you expensive problems. As far as the rest of the car, the 915 does need to be inspected, and a rebuild is roughly $2000 including removal & replacement of the engine, as Jack Olsen stated. A PPI at Dougherty (a great shop) will be eye-opening, and they can also guide you as to of the proper market value of this particular car.

notbob

With the 915 would it make more sense to replace it or rebuild / beef it up & add lsd?

Not really worried about cost to remove and replace as I would do that myself, just the machine shop work outside of that, I'm fairly handy but a tranny rebuild i still consider slightly outta my reach or at least time effecient.

Which of the G50s is the one thats 6-spd, has lsd, and would have the right bell housing to fit this? I've heard it needs the shorter one.

MuffinMan

Upgrading to a G50 is not a trivial matter. It typically costs a few thousand in addition to the transmission cost, itself. I briefly looked at this alternative, but I remember discovering that you had to go to coil overs in the rear in addition to several other mods. There are plenty of 915s out there powered by 3.6s, you just need to factor the health of this particular 915 into your decision.

Adding LSD or a torque-biasing differential (another discussion, altogether) is $1000-$1500 (for the parts) on top of the 915 rebuild cost. Once out of the car, your average 915 rebuild is roughly $1500. The labor is 6-8 hours, plus whatever parts are worn out.

notbob

What i had heard is the shorter bell housing G50s allow you to keep the torsion bar setup. Not sure who told me this, anyone got some input here?

I see you have a 77 with a 3.6 varioram, unforutnately his is the 95 so no varioram... I was trying to figure out if there is any way in helll that there is enough clearance to do the 993 supercharger at some point, I mean once it's a bastardized car why not go all the way?

So roughly $3,000 ~ $4,000 to rebuild a 915 and add lsd, the question here is, can it be rebuilt to handle the torque of a 993 supercharged even?

MuffinMan

I'm sorry I'm not more help on the G50 issue. I probably have an email with the details lying around someplace, but after discussing it with my mechanic, I decided it was not worth the time, money, and effort.

A few friends of mine recently attended the Bruce Anderson/Jerry Woods classes, one of which was the transmission rebuilding class. Among many questions answered was the amount of power a 915 could handle. Jerry supposedly said a 915 was good for power up to a 3.8. Figure that's somewhere in the low to mid 300's. Other than that resource, I've heard numbers all over the map.

frankd

I am located near Oxford Pa. I am a local PCA member and may be able to get you some background on the car if you can tell me who the current or past owners are.

You might also try Paul McDonald at pertformance Automotive in Malvern Pa. 610 695 9545. for a PPI.

They are very good.

frankd

PS

I think I know this car. Find out if it was owned by Mike Murphy in West Chester.

If so , He did most of the work onthe car and is very knowledgeable.

notbob

Got response on issue of still wanting a PPI, apparently he wants a $500 premium for it.

"If I have to spend another day of my time getting a PPI done the price is $ 16K. Other conditions still apply."

RANDY P

Looks like it's a deal? Nice! Good job on the price too!

If I knew what I was about to get into before I bought mine it would've been something like your deal I would've sought. Would be miles ahead by now. Next time it will be

He's getting you to stop haggling, funny!

rjp

notbob

Me stop haggling? Bleh now I'm haggling on who pays the PPI, yes I am cheap... yes I will barter things to death, but yes I also bring cash to the table when I buy stuff

My old mechanic's boss used to bitch up a storm about the projects I'd bring in as they were there for ages (literally a year plus for my vette, that I drove a month and a half and sold). But like my mechanic told his boss "but he pays everytime, in cash too"... so his boss kept letting him work on my projects and darned cheap too

He actually made a house call last night as he owns his own shop now and I sold my '76 Trans Am to him, but we had a small mishap with the exhaust... hanger snapped off, caught on the ledge of the driveway and bent the pipes from the headers into a nice shape... we still haven't yet solved the dilemma of what to do with this as I want to get to drive it as he takes possession of it in late August. Found out he doesn't want to keep the pistol grip shift **** from it, so if i get this 911 I gotta find out how to retrofit in my t-handle pistol grip hurst shifter into it He's putting a real 8 ball shift **** on it, most literally a drilled out 8 ball.

Whats a list of things I should make sure are checked over in the PPI?
Leak down?
Compression test?
Suspension

Is any kind of test they can do on the transmission?

notbob

Spoke too soon on the PPI issue, haggling is complete:

"AT $16K I will pay for the PPI at a Porsche shop I chose and you approve"

Now to call and put my ducks in a financial row, grr why couldn't I have remembered my checkbook today, going to have to get him his bank check for deposit in the morning.