JBH

Notbob:

A few follow up questions:
Did you find the 1999 Panorama article? I would love to see what the car looked like when it was featured there. It would make a good reference point to see the care it has received in the ensuing years

Did you talk to Dougherty Automotive about the conversion?

How many miles on the 993 engine?

Look at RJays RS Clone - now that's a car owned by a fanatic and one I would buy in a heartbeat.

notbob

993 engine i believe he said was in the 30ks on the mileage, clutch and such was done at the swap, he did not do the swap himself.

No luck on the panorama article, do you know of a place that has these older magazines online as that is a very good idea to find it I'm going to email the owner and ask if he has a copy.

I haven't had a ton of time to devote to this, if i said I was working 60 hours weeks I'd be day dreaming.

He has had 2 others come look at it, his stated status of them:
1 is looking to sell his car first and the other is attempting to secure financing, so definately hasn't sold yet (only been on market now I guess for what would be a bit over 2 weeks which is short).

He's made an offer of half up front in cash and taking payments on the back half, still not sure if thats a lunatic idea or one that may make sense.

I would definately say the owner isnt a fanatic about keeping things perfect to the 9th degree but he's no slouch either, everything seemed very professionally done, and I've been into some major whack jobs of projects (plenty for sale for the adventourous type ). I had my head up under that dash looking for funky wiring / digging for what looked like shody work and really didnt' find it. He didn't have the vacuum gauge hooked up, but the wiring for it was ran nice and neatly in a group to behind the drivers seat waiting to be hooked up, all very very cleanly done.

Kind of an odd question (and yes i do type too much :P):
are there skid plates available for these cars? I have a great knack of backing out too fast and whacking the front lip or hitting some of ohios famous pot holes, would love to get some type of rally style skid plate for the underside of the 911 even if it adds weight.


I do want to say major thanks to everyone so far that has responded as anyone who has more insight then me is greatly appreciated and if it helps in my search, I'll gladly buy them a beer if they're ever near Cincinnati or see them at a PCA event (after racing of course...)

JBH

Just for reference, I did a quick scan on the PCA website for cars in your price range. Here's a sampling:


1974 Factory Carrera #434. Many mods incl 935 spoiler w/oil cooler, padded rollbar, 5 pt harness, brake & susp upgrades, trans rebuild, extensive motor service. Pic shows quality of car. Email / call ONLY if serious and can act quickly. Judyakenning@msn.com or (702) 565-1767 $13,000



Extremely rare '74 911 Carrera. Only 528 US models made. This car has been completely restored from the metal on up. Looks perfect, runs extremely strong, and sounds awesome. This car has special touches throughout as you can see in the photos: custom embroidery in the front compartment, very comfortable "GT" style seats with Porsche embroidered on them (stock seats will also come with it if desired). etc. No expense was spared to make this a wonderful car. Engine has been completely gone through and sorted out. The head studs have been replaced as is necessary for the 2.7 liter cars. Everything works perfect. $17.5K




Very Rare 1984 Factory Turbo-Look. 1 of 400 built in 1984. The car is like new. All original. No paint work, 2 owners, no stories. Under 40K miles. $27.5K




996 Porsche Carrera 2
Porsche BIG RED Brake Kit; Pads, rotors and sensors new in 1/2004
· 125,500 Miles
· Optional Exhaust
· Second owner
· Service records
· Six Speed
· Cold A/C
· Never wrecked
· All accessories work as designed
· Books, brochures, tools, etc. included
Issues:
· Needs new shock absorbers
· Torn vinyl between rear speakers
PRICE $27,900 OBO



Most of the cars I have listed here will increase in value over time. I particularly like the 1984 Turbo-Look with less than 40K miles.

Any way...you get the idea. Take your time, go slow, and make sure you are getting the best car for the money.

Jay H

A 1977 911 that has low miles, is in exceptional shape, completely stock, has full records, all numbers match, perfect interior and has original paint with minimal body work (if any) might bring in the $11,000 to $15,000 range.

At $19k, you can add a few thousand dollars to your budget and find a decent 964 that will give you similar performance without the potential nightmare of having a highly modified car. I can completely understand the desire of having a high output motor in an earlier, lightweight car, but things need to be done right (i.e., lots of money needs to be spent) or you end up with a lot of headaches.

I'm in the $13k (or less) camp on this one...

Just some more food for thought.

Jay
90 964

notbob

Jeffrey thanks for the searching

The turbo look I kinda like except for 2 things:
1. I rack up miles like nobody's business (one of reasons I love already bastardized cars, nobody is going to dislike the fact it's cranking on the miles)
2. White... not in my list of colors, colors I'd consider: black (pref), gaurds red (awesome), never liked yellow till you showed me those two... now thats an option too What is the name of that yellow? That looks slick with the black rims


On the 996, are they like the new bmws in the fact they've lost all the real love of the car due to weight and bloat? I love the look of both old and new 911's, with 993 being the true gem, I'm a huge fan of the wide turbo look though. For the new 996 motors is 125k getting high up there? I just always felt to me a Porsche is Air/Oil cooled.
Both of the '74s look very nice.

I'm never going to be a collector in the sense, I'm definately a driver kind of guy who isn't as finiky as most about creature comforts, I love the mechanicals and the soul of a car (you're all car guys you know what i mean, go drive a new 3 series bmw if you can find it's soul let me know... i've driven 5 of them and about wanted to total it just to get it off the road the bloated pos, I miss my '99 M3 as it was light / fast / tossable and had some serious feel to it).

So to me low mileage isn't a feature its a curse, as it means I will lose money gauranteed as it wont be low mileage long, I average about 30k+ a year in driving but thats split between a few cars, but I do tend to get out and drive them daily when I can, there's a few I own that I never drove not due to not likely them but due to impractciality.... i.e. the '76 trans am drinks gas and has no a/c, cant be driven in rain (posi kicks it side to side violently) and my truck was an unreliable pos (trade it for anything under the sun pretty much).

What I like about this '77 is the:
* turbo wide body
* 993 motor
* had good feel to it and excellent pickup
* paint was pretty good, not perfect but pretty good
* is close enough that i got to drive it, mind you 8 hours each way was painful of a drive to test drive
* has full records
* professional swap / no evident shoddy wiring
* took a beating of a test drive with 0 problems
* black fuchs rims look great

Dislikes:
* non lsd 915 tranny
* price
* headliner
* smaller rims then I'd put on in the rear

By the way you guys rock for helpin out with this, I see jeffery you got an M Coupe, how do you like it? I've checked them out before to me they're what the Z3 should have been to start with, and the Z4 really needs to get pushed off a cliff and forgotten about it's hideously ugly.

JBH

The M Coupe is a very different vehicle - point and shoot - completely different from any Porsche or BMW I have driven in the past.

It has the S54 engine which puts out 315HP, so it also has great throttle response. That said, I would probably trade it for a Porsche (like RJay's RS clone). There is something about Porsche that a BMW just can't reproduce.

I would still go slow - I don't think the car you are looking at is going anywhere at $19K

Jay H

I located the January 1999 article on this car. It's a pretty extensive article that talks about what considerations are needed for stuffing a 993 engine into a 2.7 car. It appears that the author of this article is the owner of this car at this point in time. Many items were considered including exhaust, wiring harness, heat, A/C, tach hookup, oil system/cooler, fuel lines, throttle linkage, induction system, flywheel, and transmission choice. The author felt the 915 tranny would be able to handle the power of the 993 motor...

No pics of the outside of the car are shown, but one pic of the 993 motor installed in the car shows a pretty clean engine compartment in contrast to the dust and who knows what is on the A/C compressor and fan housing on the eBay pictures of the engine.

He did take the car to a local drag strip and gave these numbers for the converted car:

2380 lbs Curb Weight
1/4 mile time: 14.2 sec
1/4 speed: 98.3 mph

They also state over 100 hours of labor was needed to perform the conversion not including all of his research.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jay
90 964

notbob

How in the world does a car that weighs 2400lbs, with a 3.6L 993 motor only hit 14.2 in the 1/4mi? Did I miss something or what? My '91 mr2 turbo with a 95 JDM swap and a boost controller can hit a 13.2 all day long and that 911 definately felt faster...

A lot I guess could have to do with the size of the back wheels and lack of traction as no LSD (still dun get why you wouldn't do this as part of the swap).

Yeah it all seemed clean...
Decisions ... decisions...

Jay H

911's are not known for being good drag strip cars. You also don't know how well the guy did (or how much skill he had) when launching the car, etc. He could have botched all the runs and just took his best time for that session. Also, how was the weather and strip conditions too? Too many variables to rely on his posted times in that Pano issue and again, drag strip numbers are almost useless in the 911 world...

notbob

What hurts the 911 at the drag? The torsion bar suspension?

Car felt very fast and met my style of driving very well, so not overly concerned, just would like to know why a 911 sucks at the strip?

I'm sure driving style had a lot to do with it, he seemed scared of my driving in my opinion lightly.... lol.

Jay H

Good drag strip cars are typically cars that produce gobs of torque at low rev's. Hence most muscle cars are good for drag strip stuff.

911's are more about high speed handling/power and curves (back roads and track work). 911's just don't have the really bottom end grunt like an American V8 and they (the 911 drivetrains) just don't take a liking to drag strip starts either. 911's are not set up for that type of racing and were not designed for it either.

Doug&Julie

I also think, believe it or not, that having the weight over the rear wheels prevents a proper "drag" start. You either get too much wheelspin or the car boggs down. It's great for traction once the car is moving (like accelerating out of a turn) but poor from "dead stop" starts.

JBH

A Porsche can be a great drag car by correcting some "deficiencies"

* A change in gearing (lower and closer ratios) will get you much better acceleration
* Wider rear tires help with wheel spin and oversteer
* Proper launch technique - the car will actually squat under a good launch. Just a chirp of the tires and you're off.

Fourteen seconds is slow for that car, but as others pointed out, the conditions of that run are unknown. Also, most owners will not launch just to get to lower 1/4 mile times - the clutch in these cars is kinda expensive and not made for drag racing. I always hated that smell at an AutoX

RANDY P

Check the MPH on his run, that'll tell you what it's really doing. Traction mostly affects et's. MPH will tell you how much power he's making. Bet it's over 100 when he hit the traps.

OBTW, if that car is what you specifically want meaning, exactly what you want, why not pay the money? I To most it's not worth it but if that's what you had in mind / daydream for a 911 then why not? good deal for both of you. Hard to take ebay values into consideration since it's basically a one off. If you were going that way anyhow it'll cost you WAY more than $19K to build.

My dissenting opinion says he'll probably get it, assuming it's fairly clean and straight. (disclaimer)

911 makes a crappy drag car - simply not built for shock abuse that 1/4 requires. 915 will never last in that environment. You'll be broke busted and unhappy running a stock Porsche down the 1320. Not that they can't turn good ET's but they'll never last doing it. Not cost effective. You gotta have that -buy a Chevy.

Just my $.02

rjp

Doug H

I love 911s, but you might want to also check out 964s. they are very cheap and one that is well sorted should not give you any problems. A few minor tweeks such as chip, cat-bypass, performance primary, secondary by-pass and a cone filter will give you a nice little hp boost and make the quick very responsive and fun to drive. It will also sound great. The car is a little easier to drive, better AC and a more updated feel to it. I run 12.6s in my heavily modified, but heavy cabriolet. Just something to think about. I would not trade my 964 for anything and it may be my favorite car in my stable.

A good 964 may cost less than a slightly tired G50 right now and you may have a better selection as far as color combinations and etc. I know I hard a hard time finding a G50 to replace the one I wrecked and ended up going with a 964. I was hesitant to do so, but am very glad I did now.