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Old 05-22-2004, 01:32 AM
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Dane
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Default The project car...

10 months ago (8/02) I had no clue about 911s or Porsches in general for that matter. On a flight of fancy I decided to buy one for my birthday. It just sounded like something I “should" do!

Heck I haven’t left my first childhood yet and don’t plan on it any time soon so why not?

A friend had a ’79 SC for sale at the right price. (or so I thought) Ignoring the past history of the car (read here, "money pit" @ 10K$ in 10K miles over a 7 year period) I took it to a local shop for a buyer’s inspection. Assured the car was worth every penny I was paying, I added an oil change to the service record. (Little did I know I just bought what was to become for me a 40K$+ SC!)

That afternoon I took off on a fast 800 mile round trip drive picking up my wife in the middle of it and introducing her to my new toy on the ride home!

I ignored the bald tires, bad shocks, minor oil leaks with the obligatory burnt oil smell and my wife's displeasure and instead Ijust fell in love with “my” Porsche. They are cool cars in any condition that runs. By week’s end I had found Pelican’s BB and Wayne’s “101 Projects”. At first I did my own work. But time and patience drove me to look for a reliable Porsche shop by late winter. A good shop is as hard to find as a clean and reliable 911 I think.

Pelican members gave me some great info, clued me in on what was good and bad service, then gave me a chance to look at Randy’s “Iris” and Jacks” BB 1 and 2. All contributed ideas for my car project and firmly planted in my brain that the end result could be even more than I first experienced.

In short I had quickly become a Porsche geek like the rest of you Numerious DE and track days followed.

I have almost finished with my car. Only the interior and the 3.6 transplant are left. The motor will wait till next winter. The interior when it starts to rain again, will be easy enough to do.

Hopefully my experience might help others who travel the same road in the future. Things I would do different or the same?

Different:

Get three or more buyer’s inspections done first. Took three shops to find my car had damage from a previous wreck! Get it aligned and corner balanced first thing and make those results part of the pre purchase discussion and agreement. It will save you a LOT of money in the long run. Hard to fix bent cars. I know a little about the cars now and I would still have three inspections done when I buy a used one again. More eyes and more experience with these cars will never hurt you.

If buying again no question I would buy a newer car….”87 to ’89 Carrera with a sun roof. Get the G50, 3.2 and better brakes from the get go. Add SSIs and a chip, the rest is easy.

Or get a clean body to start with and go ground up as Jack and Randy did on their cars as time and your pocket book allows. The more I drive my car and compare it to the newer cars, I would like to build ground up next time.

Things I’d do different on the next 3.0 SC or 3.2?

Keep the SC brakes instead of adding 930s. Just add air ducting, pads and slotted rotors and you are set even for moderate track use. DE days will never be a problem with good maintance. And you'd need that with any brake system.
Buy Pole Position Ricaros instead of the SRDs. Much better value in seats. Just hard to get in and out of.
Use a good after market, light weight, wing instead of a OEM wing.
Get the 8” 944 and 9” 911 Fuchs wheels from the get go with SO3s (forget all the expensive 17" wheels)
21/30 or 22/31 Sanders hollow torsion bars. I have 22/30s and like them.
HD front with sport rear Biltsteins (worth having them revalved IMO)
The dual outlet Danke stainless sounds nice but is too damn LOUD after a couple of hours in the car.
I'd spend more (and a stainless Danke aint cheap) for a better muffler....
NEVER track the car, it’s too addictive and expensive

Much of what I have done with oil cooler, brakes, transmission and suspension were to set up the car for a latter 3.6 transplant. You'll save a lot of money by plannning ahead and only doing this all once, based on the motor/HP you'll want in the end project.
My goal is 280/300 hp.

The same:

Things worth every penny and more in a 3.0 SC? And what seemed to make the biggest differences in performance, pride of ownership, creature comfort and drivability. In no special order. Some of the cheapest mods were generally the most noticable to the driver, like the C4 lights, gear oil, pedal / wheel change, and wiper park.

Clear bra…should have used “Stoneguard” though.
The short ratio gear box and limited slip
20/21 cam
After market pedals, wheel and seats (although it has been expensive to find the ones I like best)
New shocks, huge difference in how the car drove and handled?
SSIs
C4 headlights
Good alignment and corner balance
Reverse the wipers
New heater boxes
Shifter linkage rebuild with new gear oil
Halon, fire system plumbed in (simply for peace of mind)
Pole Position seats
Driver’s Ed in any fashion

The list of recent upgrades on my ’79 SC for your reference:
Car was 100% stock and in serious need of repair when I purchased it. (needed: clutch, tires, shocks, previous unibody damage repair, engine reseal, brake pads, rotors, front end rebuild and bushings replaced, ect)
My buyer’s inspection (done by a Porsche Club recommended shop BTW) listed less than 3K$ in repairs needed! Little did I know!!

Here are some of the details on my 1979 SC: done between 10/1/02


and 6/20/03



and 8/10/03



Body work:
Clear 3M bra and car protection (Stoneguard)
Reversed wiper arms
RSA OEM wing @ paint
C4 head lights with 55/100s, wiring relay installed & painted trim rings
Borsch fog lights 55
*RUF style MA Shaw YB bumpers with nerf bar front and aluminum heat shield back, original Ruf front air dam, paint, plate lights and mount
Reweld of the unibody @ rear torsion tubes and engine compartment from previous collision damage, repaired 6/01/03

Engine and transmission:
(5/14/04 new CIS Max Moritz 3.4 was fired up built on this 3.0)

Complete case reseal @ 187,424 actual miles on engine
Carrera hydraulic chain tensioners, new style lines and support arms (6/19/03)
Air pop off value
Turbo camshaft oil line restrictors
B&B stainless front spoiler oil cooler
Webcam, performance grind, 20/21 camshaft / new OEM rockers 5/15/03
Heat sheets
Magnecor wire set
Turbo value covers
Club sport mounts on the engine and transmission
SSIs and a dual outlet Danke stainless
Pre 1974 oil lines
Close ratio on a rebuilt 915 (20K miles) with new gearing on 2 thru 5, 132mph @ 7K
Factory ZF limited slip, set @ 80%
Sachs Power Clutch
High Performance Aluminum Flywheel (59% lighter)
Wevo internal gate shift kit
Optima RS race/street battery in original position

Brakes:
Braided stainless steel brake lines
SCI 930 brake conversion from a ’86 with slotted, floating front calipers and OEM drilled rears
Ferodo FDB 451 high performance street/track pads
AJ USA brake air kit

Suspension:
Elephant Racing triangulated cross bar
22 front with 30 rear, Sander's hollow T bars
20 front and 18 rear stock OEM sway bars
solid bushings (nitrex or nylon) all around (less rear sway bar)
Bilstein sport shocks
new ball joints
Turbo Tie rods
Alignment, corner balanced, lowered by Tru-line Seattle, 6/20/03 @ Euro ride height @ 25.0” front, 24.25” rear
Fr 484/492 rr 798/782

Wheels and tires:
Fuchs from a ‘86 993 7" and 9" wheels
205 and 245 SO3s dry and 205 and 245 KDWs wet

(now 7/18/03) they are 17" 10 spoke Fikse with SO2s 235x45s and 255x40s that fit easily in the SC flairs with no mods.)

and back to custom 8 and 9.5" x 16 custom Fuchs 5/21/04

Interior:

SafeCraft 5# Halon 1301 Fire system, pull cord activation, plumbed for single cockpit and with dual nozzles in engine compartment
Ricaro SRDs (driver’s has a sub strap)
Momo 07 wheel (my fifth wheel)
tecni quick release hub
WEVO shifter and race ****
AJ USA pedals and dead pedal
new VDO speedo
new heater boxes
and a really nice stereo (it will relieve some stress in stop and go traffic


Next update (7/18/03)

My fairly stock '79 SC weighed in at 2656, 2664, 2676, 2679 with no air, with a factory front spoiler, fogs, SRDs, full power interior and a sun roof, during 4 different corner balances at two different shops.

Call it 2660# with half tank of gas.

Then I added to factory RSA tail, CRT f/g bumpers, 930 brakes, B&B front oil cooler and a plumbed 5# Halon system. Wheels are Fuchs 7 and 9s with SO3s 205/245 x16. The weight has dropped to 2556 and 2567 on the last two corner balances with no spare or tools. I try to have a half tank of gas in the car when I have the balances done.

That makes it 2560#

This week I stripped the interior & sound matts leaving only the rear quarter pads and covers, head liner and door panels. I added ten spoke Fikse with 235x17 and 255x17 SO2s and a single Ricaro Pole Position and a rubber floor matt. (tires added about 35#)

Again a half tank of gas and we are at 2285#
My goal is breaking 2200# dry.

A little loud. (not as bad as expected though) Ear plugs help ...but they helped before too.

Yes it is faster...enough so I am going to leave it as a single seater till after the next track day

More to come on the interior.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...711#post912711

and the latest pic or the current version
Old 05-22-2004, 01:34 AM
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Dane
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Last fall I was pricing both a 3.6 transplant and a 3.4 rebuild for my 3.0 SC, keeping and maximizing CIS.

Because of oil consumption I had to do something. The oil consumption turned out to be a couple of slightly bent valves done by a previous owner.

I planned on having a shop do all the work.
No time for a DIY project.

The quotes I got from several of the shops on the board for a 3.6 Varioram engine swap was 20K total...maybe a bit more depending on the engine and its condition.

I know the guys who got into the 3.6 swaps early did a lot better price wise and many did it DIY.

I was told I couldn't do a decent 3.4 with Mahle parts for a reasonable amount. Many said 15K wouldn't do it including several of the shops I had quote the 3.6.

Here is my list of major parts.
Used but magnufluxed and guaranteed 74.4 crank (drop this and have a 3.2 short stroke)
Mahle Max Moritz 98 P&Cs (these and a 3.2 crank make a 3.4)
Pauter rods and bolts
ARP case studs
Aasco Ti keepers and HD valve springs

Total rebuild from the ground up, new bearings, performance valve job, the works for a 3.4 CIS. No expense spared with a balance and dry compression check as we went was $13,092 before tax and the engine paint. I reused my wires, the 20/21 cams, SSIs and exhaust so you could add those costs to the project but they were all paid for long ago. The new crank added $1600. So a 3.2 short stroke or Motronic 3.4 could easily be had for under $11,500 if you don't go into the bottom end. Maybe even get down to $10K at today's Eu$ prices if you are careful, especially starting with the Motronic 3.2s.

My point is there are options. This engine turned out to be more than I bargained for even with the wait and issues involved over the winter.



A thanks to Gerber Motor Sports in Seattle who built the engine, Jon at EBS for the continued info, patience and the major parts.
EBS were the go to guys for this project. And finally to the guys at Andial who have built lots of these engines and answered all my questions knowing they weren't getting a penny from me.....I owe you guys the beer! And a hearty thanks to all here on Pelican who contributed at different times in the process!

More on the car and its mods.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...highlight=pics

More to come on the end results of the engine rebuild.
Old 05-22-2004, 03:58 AM
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That looks fantastic! Congrats!!!
Old 05-22-2004, 10:58 AM
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Hi Dane, Did you have the custom Fuch's on your car at the Qwelle 911 swap meet last weekend? Are these wheels welded or 2-piece? Your car looked fantastic and congratulations on the Best of Show award from the NWPCA! Ric
Old 05-23-2004, 05:42 PM
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Dane
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Thanks guys! A lot more to do on the car but I am getting there. Now the little things are adding up. It never ends. The PCA Concourse thing is something I have never thought about....but now I guess I'm going to have to actually finish the car..."victory" is addictive

My car has original 7 and 9 Fuchs in the picture above.

Our new Quelle 16" wheels are pretty trick though. We have used a modern offset for the 8s up front and the 9.5s in the back for an SC or Carrera. That way you can easily run big brakes and the 225/ 245 combo.

Hard to beat that combo on the '78 on cars.

Wheels are two piece made from original 6" and 7" Fuchs with welded rims, no fasteners showing and they are sealed so no leaks like the most modern three piece wheels, that need occasional maintance.

The 8" rims will also fit the mid year cars in the rear (pre rear Carerra flair) with little or no work. We are in the process of trying our set of "mules" on a bunch of local's cars so if you have a early car with no flairs we could use your help.

Since we are first and formost Porsche enthusists, the best thing I think we'll be doing is offering an exchange program for your wheels. Send us a decent set of 6s and 7s plus the $ and we send you the 8s and 9.5s ready to mount up in your finish preference...no waiting and no hassle.

Polished spokes with a black background like my car is shown with above and an all black center like the origina Fuchs will be the first options. I am in the process of doing a set for myself in the frosted, clear anodized, RSR look which we will be offereing shortly.

Either way we'll have some high quality wheels, with the original Fuchs look and strength, that actually fit our cars, available shortly.
Old 05-23-2004, 07:48 PM
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Man, all I can say is WOW! Love the fact that you can still find the objectivity to say you'd have done some things differently.

That car is B-E-A-YOOOOOO-tiful, man. Question: why reverse the wipers?? Does it really help, or does it just look cool?
Old 05-23-2004, 10:42 PM
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Dane
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That car is B-E-A-YOOOOOO-tiful, man. Question: why reverse the wipers?? Does it really help, or does it just look cool?
Thanks very much. The better I get to know the car and the options I decided on, the more critical I become on everything I have done. I need to write up a more current "dos and don't". Rennlist and Pelican were my biggest influences building the car. Now with 18 months and several pay checks past I have a different opinion of some of the info I first used to build the car.

The wiper reverse, i think, is one of the best things you can do for yourself as a driver. Your passengers will hate for the idea though. It really clears up the drivers' vision through the windscreen. Easy enough to do and nothing to buy. I highly recommend the mod.
Old 05-23-2004, 11:33 PM
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I cannot get over how much lighter you've made it, man. That is CRAZY! The one interior shot of the passenger door panel; is that an RS door pull? Maybe I'm lookin' at the wrong thing. WAY cool car, man...
Old 05-23-2004, 11:36 PM
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Dane
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I cannot get over how much lighter you've made it, man. That is CRAZY! The one interior shot of the passenger door panel; is that an RS door pull? Maybe I'm lookin' at the wrong thing. WAY cool car, man...
Yep, got a little crazy and actually had to add weight, a second seat and things like sound proofing to get my wife back in the car. The black nylon door pull is what you are looking at.
Old 04-13-2010, 07:07 PM
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Dane,
Came across your thread while searching for "upgrades to a 79 911 SC". Awesome car!
Do you still have it and did you ever "finish it" after winning a PCA concours in 04?
Old 04-13-2010, 08:19 PM
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Dane
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I did finish it.....I think it is finished anyway

With the paint still wet I took it to the PCA Bogus Hill climb in '05 and won there as well.

Got a nice write up and photo spread in EXELLENCE after Pete Stout drove it on his northern loop of the PCH. Pete labled the 2280# car now with a 3.6, the "Blue Meanie"

















More here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...burns-car.html

Foolishly I then sold the car...regretted it and bought it back

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...uppe-3-6l.html

Thanks for asking...just been the last few weeks of spring that I have started thinking about and looking at the car again for Bogus. Zoom, zoom!

And a picture from the weekend I bought the car in 10/02


Last edited by Dane; 04-13-2010 at 10:38 PM. Reason: added the '02 pic
Old 04-13-2010, 09:45 PM
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Dane,
Thanks for the rapid response. I'm still reading!!!!! Sounds like an incredible journey and to think it all started on "a flight of fancy" in 2002 on your birthday. Really enjoyed the read. Take care.



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