z168

Im currently looking at getting one, specifically the late 60s, 70s, or even 80s. Not sure where to start. There seems to be an abundance of stock in Los Angeles and apart from numbers matching, there is a wide range in prices.

Where do the gurus here suggest I start my proper learning? Any magazines, technical references, youtubes you can point me to? Theres a lot of noise and I wanted to go with the definitive guide.

Any help appreciated

j lok

Grab a copy of Pete Zimmerman’s book, The Used 911 Story.

z168

Done. looks to be good reading. Ill have it next week. Thanks!

Noah930

That's a pretty wide spread of air-cooled cars you're considering. (And a wide spread of prices, to match.) What are you looking for in a car? That will flavor which years will fit you better.

60's - 80's. Those are effectively the first two-ish generations (generation-and-a-half?) of 911s. The "long hoods" were made from 1965 until 1972. The leading edge of the hood extended all the way down to the front bumper, beyond the front-most portion of the side fenders. Those cars can even be broken down into short wheelbase cars (up until and including 1968) and long wheelbase cars (1969+). In 1973, due to federal regulations (cars had to be able to survive a 5 mph impact with no body damage), 911s developed the accordion style impact bumpers. These models were known as "short hoods," because the forward edge of the hoods ended at the same level as the front fenders--you'll get the visual distinction when you look at two cars next to each other. The cars from 1973 until 1989 look pretty much the same--they're all short hoods--and they're colloquially also called "G-bodies." They can be broken down into the Middies ('73-'77), SCs ('78-'83), and Carreras ('84-'89). I think 1976 was also the first year of the zinc body galvinization, which is a big deal in any outdoor object that's 40-50 years old and made largely of steel.

If you get the Zimmerman book, it gives a great breakdown on what years had which motors, quirks, etc. In general, the earlier cars had smaller motors but were lighter. The later cars had bigger motors, but were heavier. Splitting hairs, but earlier cars will be less powerful but more tossable, while later cars will have more power but not feel quite as light on their feet. They will all have terrible (stock) air conditioning, which isn't a small issue in SoCal. Also, you can take just about any of these model years, and make them into any other model year with enough body, suspension, and motor work. A lot of stuff is interchangeable between them because the basic tub was virtually the same from 1965 until 1989.

But in short, you I think first have to decide if you're looking for a long hood or a short hood. Do you want a couple (most de$irable), or a cabriolet or a targa? I think 1984 was the first year of the factory cab and 1967 was the first for the targa. Are you looking for a driver or a garage queen?

I'd recommend a PPI. There are lots of great shops in the SoCal area. I'd recommend picking a place where the car doesn't get serviced. Post where a prospective car is located, and there are likely 2-4 good shops in that part of town.

There's also the 912. Long hood looks (well, except for the 1976 model) but with a flat-4 instead of the 911s flat-6.

This website is a good reference. I think the 911 Technical section on Pelican Parts is another fantastic place. Lots of knowledge and people willing to share. Lots of traffic (more than even here). If you find a candidate, you can post about the car and people will chime in on their thoughts.

Good luck!

Tinkerer

You may also want to check the ‘90’s 964 and 933 models. A bit pricier but I’ve always felt the 933 is the best of breed.

z168

Thank you Noah for your extensive reply. Very good questions - I am currently partial to the 911 long hood. Not sure what the differences are between the T, E and S models but all I know the S is the most expensive. Hopefully the book will clarify all that. As for type, prefer a coupe. Also open to a targa but not a cabrio.

My first stop was at BeverlyHills Car Club in Los Angeles. They had a lot of targas in varying conditions. Not necessarily looking for a numbers matching car but condition and presentation must be good (no projects). I plan to drive this weekly to work. I have a good 30-mile one-way commute on a combination of 10, 5, and 710 freeways.

Noah930

S was for Sport. Highest output motor (in terms of HP), but maybe a little peaky in its delivery. But being the highest HP 911 offered for sale, it's the most collectible and expensive.

T was for Touring. Less HP, but less peaky power delivery.

E was for Einspritzung (sp?)--(fuel) injected.

Some years also had an L model: Luxury.

And then, there were years you could order the "S" appearance package on one of the "lesser" cars. Or "S" suspension as an option. I don't have a long hood, so I can't recall the specifics off the top of my head. The Zimmerman book will detail which years came with what. There's also a "Red Book" that will list production numbers, VINs, and what wheels/colors/options/packages were available for which years.

BHCC seems to have a checkered online reputation. I have no personal experience with them. But having been online on various Porsche forums for the past 17 years, I've heard a lot of stories of people who said they looked at cars there that were not nearly as nice as presented online. And you'll probably have no maintenance records or other history on the car. But there I've also read stories from a few people who claim they bought their cars there, and everything worked out great for them. In short, if I found a car at BHCC, I'd definitely want someone who knows what they're looking at to check it out. I don't think BHCC allows you to take a car off-premises for a PPI, but over on Pelican there's a reputable guy, Techweenie, who offers mobile PPI services.

I have a targa (964). It's not as tight, chassis-wise, as a coupe. (I also have an '87 coupe.) I can hear the targa body squeaking around me as I drive. But I also don't really notice any significant chassis flex (or the weight of the targa glass) while canyon carving. Coming from a coupe, I wasn't looking for a targa, but that's the opportunity that came my way. Living here in LA, I've really come to enjoy having a convertible. Fortunately my top is in good condition, but they can be expensive to repair. And a new one is ridiculously expensive (something like $14K?) from Porsche.

Mlrjr

I love my 89 cab, but weather wise, i am not in coupe country. The AC on these cars are not the greatest....and in Alabama....it would have to be the greatest ac in the world!! The last two weeks here have been hot...real hot! Very high humidity and temps in the 95-103 range. Early morning and late afternoon drives in the cab are great. We , literally, have 9-10 months of top down cruising here. I don't think i would have put nearly the miles on my car had it been a coupe.You,on the other hand, have many choices. Not near the need for AC. The coupe or targa would be great, but you are in top down heaven. The targa may be the best of both worlds.I hope you find what you are looking for. Read the reviews on Beverly Hills Auto....some are nasty. I bought from Victory Motorcars in Houston and found the transaction to be great but they had some bad reviews too. Do your homework and good luck looking. Don't be afraid of flying out to buy the right one and enjoying a wonderful bonding drive back home.

Mark Salvetti

Be careful with BHCC. You probably don't want to buy there without someone very knowledgeable with you.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ub-2020-a.html

But that goes for private sales too. Pete's book is a great start. Since you want a long-hood, you need to know where the rust hides (really true of all 911s, but especially long-hoods before the cars were galvanized). Even a California car could have rust issues.

Mark

Dr. 914

for collectibility the 69-73 is the one to have. Over all for both, here is my list

1 69-73
2 87-89
3 84-86
4 78-83
5 65-68
6 74-77

raspritz

It is good that you want to learn. Take your time. I race a '67 911 racecar, drive a '69 911T, and have three modern Porsches, so I've been around the 911 block a few times. An early 911 as a DD, even in SoCal, sounds romantic but may not be the best choice. At best, it is a quirky affectation. These are old cars, with old car limitations, and do not have even a small fraction of the performance and reliability of modern cars. There is so much to know, and there are so many ways to go very far wrong, that you should look, look again, and look yet again before you leap.

Edward

You got lots of good advice already. Where in SoCal are you located?

Edward

tone40

transmission would get old very fast. The freeways you mentioned are not free flowing most times of the day. Would you feel comfortable driving in the areas around the freeway if you had to make a detour or had an emergency?

Plus, there are a lot of bad drivers out there who don't care much about their cars. How would you feel if you got hit while driving your collectable 911?

I drive mine when and where the conditions are right.

Just a few things to consider before making the leap.

Jrtaylor9

If 60/70/80 is your target and you are new to 911 I'd suggest going as "new" as possible (late 80s) to start. If it's not too much PITA and you want to trade off a little more PITA for extra emotion, go a little older. I've done some version of this and now my only 911 is a '65 but that wouldn't have been a good "first 911" experience. I started with a 2007 GT3 as example and went up/down the lineup until i learned long hoods are my fav and recently went about as old as I can short of finding an actual 901. And I love it. While they share DNA an 89 and a 65 are much different animals (and I don't mean an 89 964). My 89 c3.2 was bullet proof and a great gateway to P-AC.

Jrtaylor9

OT

I saw someone make a comment about AC on an AC'd (pre-964). yeah it is worthless. Of a few of the quirks i love on my swb is the wing windows w no AC. It makes such a difference on air flow on a hot day I'd be tempted to mod a post-68, pre-964 to have it! I've dumped thousands into an aftermarket AC on a c3.2 and I'll take my a-pillar wing windows over the after mkt AC effectiveness. These old cars just can't hold in the cool or keep out the heat regardless how much cold air you can force thru the vents.